Re: MD Understanding Quality and Power

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Jan 28 2005 - 16:04:21 GMT

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Quality and Bias In Commercial Media"

    On 28 Jan 2005 at 8:52, Platt Holden wrote:

    > msh says:
    > I'm no brujo; I claim no mystical powers whatsoever. The
    > enlightenment I speak of can be attained by anyone willing to do a
    > little reading and thinking...

    platt:
    I see. If one doesn't agree with your notion of enlightenment they
    are by definition non-readers and non-thinkers. Cognitive dissonance,
    anyone?

    msh says:
    No. Just that if someone rejects the conclusion of an argument
    without finding fault with the premises or the logic, then they are
    being irrational.

    BTW, your use of the phrase "cognitive dissonance" throughout this
    post indicates that you don't know what it means. This is the result
    of your haste to mimic someone else's writing style, rather than
    provide meaningful rebuttal

    msh before:
    Every once in a while, however, someone does take the time to verify
    the crimes mentioned and, when they do, they experience an
    irreversible paradigm shift in their understanding of power in the
    world. This shift is a Quality latch-up, and when enough
    co-existent organisms have completed the shift, the species as a
    whole takes another step toward Quality.

    platt:
    How do you "verify" the crimes mentioned? Were you there?

    msh says:
    By reading and corroborating reports from people who were there, or
    hearing interviews, or reading government memos, or, sometimes,
    hearing admissions from officials responsible for the crimes. How do
    you know Custer was killed at the Little Big Horn? If you are
    claiming that we can have knowledge only of what we directly
    perceive, then there is little point in continuing this or just about
    any other discussion.

    platt:
    As for power in the world, I have yet to see your blueprint of a
    better world that doesn't require power.

    msh says:
    There is never a complete "blueprint" for significant social change.
    No one knew what would replace the institution of slavery, if
    anything. Does this mean we don't try to abolish slavery? We speak
    out against what is wrong, and try different ideas. This bad
    argument of "Whaddaya got that's better?" is advanced only by people
    who don't want things to change.

    > msh asks:
    > What crime was committed by the people of Afghanistan and Iraq,
    > other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Suppose Tim
    > McVeigh hadn't been caught, but instead fled to Idaho. Would your
    > government have been justified in bombing Idaho?

    platt:
    The liberation of Afghanistan and Iraq was not to find and punish
    those who blew up the twin towers who, as you may have forgotten,
    blew themselves up in the process. So your comparison to McVeigh is a
    non sequitur. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

    msh says:
    The one and only OFFICIAL reason for the attack on Afghanistan was to
    capture Usama Bin Laden, the perceived "mastermind" of the 9/11
    attacks. One of the several serially offered and discounted reasons
    for attacking Iraq was Hussein's "connection" to the 9/11 terrorists.

    The comparison is perfectly valid. So why not answer my question?

    msh before:
    More generally, how does your theory of soldiers and guns apply when
    the criminals are the politicians who send the soldiers?

    platt:
    I see. The people of the U.S. who elect their leaders are not only
    stupid, but accessories to crime. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

    msh says:
    Here you again seem to be saying that the leaders of your government
    can do no wrong, always act benevolently, commit no crimes. I'll ask
    again: If you believe this, then why do you object so vehemently to
    social assistance programs and taxation?

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

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