From: Mark Steven Heyman (MarkHeyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Mon Apr 25 2005 - 03:44:58 BST
Hi David,
Hope you get this before you disappear for the work week.
On 24 Apr 2005 at 12:32, David Buchanan wrote:
dmb had said to Ham:
...........Do you not see how murderous the reactionaries have been for the
last several hundred years? Do you not see that the Hitlers, the Stalins,
the Bin Ladins and the Pat Robersons of the world are extremely destructive?
The one thing these wildly different characters all have in common is an
anti-intellectual, anti-Modern stance at the heart of it all. So I'm saying
that one of Pirsig's BEST moves is to make a distinction between the social
and intellectual levels. Its a tool that allows us to sort out all kinds of
issues.
Mark said to Arlo:
Just want to say I appreciate your recent posts in response to Platt.
I believe your analysis is right on, and would add only that when we
focus on the left-right, lib-con, theist-atheist splits as the cause
of social problems, we are playing into the hands of entrenched
power. As you've suggested, real power wielded by elite minorities
feeds the flames of these red-herring dichotomies. The reason is
obvious: Every second we spend focused on false causes is time taken
from useful analysis and action against the real problem.
dmb says:
I appreciate it too. In terms of political perspective, I think both of you
guys (Arlo and Mark) are "spot on", as the Brits like to put it. But having
said that, I'd have to disagree a little bit too. First of all I would like
to point out that putting Pat Robertson in the same category with Hitler and
Stalin was not meant to imply that christian fundametalists are busy
building their own concentration camps or gulags. I mean, if I had said that
Pat Robertson was a genocidal maniac you would be right to dismiss me as a
dude with no sense of perspective or proportion. Please notice the phrase
"wildly different characters" in my description.
msh:
Actually, I think you're not all that wrong to put Robertson in the
same neighborhood with the REALLY bad guys, the list of whom I notice
is lacking the names of several well-qualified American presidents
and their henchmen. Though Robertson has relatively little power,
the enslavement of similar minds is the first step toward the
elimination of minds not similar. It's not as big a jump as one
might at first imagine.
dmb:
Secondly, for the most part I agree that "entrenched power" uses the culture
war and hot-button issues to divide and conquer. But I have to disagree here
a little bit too. Or rather, I think that there is something quite real
underneath these debates, behind those "red-herring dichotomies".
msh:
Yes, in reading what I wrote above, I give the impression that I
think the dichotomies are illusions or something, and this is wrong.
The dichotomies are real, but, unless one side or the other has real
power, the schism is nothing more than sibling bickering. It's
office politics, you know, small minds whispering round the water
cooler. Nothing much happens until power starts taking sides, until
the guy who hires and fires starts internalizing the gossip. Or
until the guy with power sees that office politics provides the
perfect distraction while he cleans out the safe. It's highly useful
for the neocons (our currently entrenched Power) to have the
Christians hate the Muslims while the Muslims hate the Jews while the
Jews hate the Muslims. Hatred fuels violence, and violence builds
empires. It is a simple, and as horrifying, as that.
dmb:
Basically, I think most of it is driven by an evolutionary struggle, one described
quite well in LILA. The intellectual and social levels are at war and this
is what I like to try to show you, gents. I have posted on this issue many,
many times and so I was a little frustrated that it seemed to go past you,
but then it occured to me that most of that work was done here before you
guys arrived here.
msh says:
But struggles of any kind occur only where Power is facing off. I'm
looking forward to exploring this idea of an evolutionary struggle
between the intellectual and social levels, but we will never
understand the nature of that confrontation until we recognize that
it too is a struggle for power.
But, to get us started, let's focus on what facet of of the
struggle. It's quite clear to me that anti-intellectualism is as
prevalent now as it was in Nazi Germany. College professors are not
being killed, yet, but we are seeing an undeniable effort to silence
them and that, my friends, is the beginning.
Dmb, thanks for the LILA references; I'll reread them during the
week. And let's see if we can give this thread some legs. Arlo?
Best,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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