From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Apr 28 2005 - 19:40:09 BST
Erin, you know well I made that very point myself - "missing the
point" in some scientific questions in aethetic contexts. I've said a
hundred times the fact that science "can" explain is not always
(rarely) useful (valuable) above Pirsig's "bilogical" (life) line.
Don't mischievously attribute rubbish to me. That's how viral memes
spread and destroy truth.
I merely asked you a straightforward question - one that could easily
attract a yes or no.
Anyways, since you introduce subjects other than "science" - no
problem with poetic allusions, as good as any scientific metaphor in
my book, better in many cases, scientists often (but NOT necessarily)
lack imagination unfortunately - as with the "cornflowers" reference I
made in the pervious post - I also rattled off a list of poets that
understood the point, in another mail in the last few days -
Coleridge, Wordsworth, Voltaire, Defoe, Blake to recall a few. Pay
attention please. No conflict amongst art / poetry / science / quality
- just the extremes of blind-logic and blind-religion that cause the
problems IMHO, but that wasn't my question.
Just answer the question.
Or can I take it as "No"
Ian
On 4/28/05, Erin <macavity11@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sure it can provide all the answers it wants but to me it is analagous to a
> scientist trying to clarify what love is when the a poet might say "Love is
> a rose". You can go ahead and talk all about what science has to say and
> know about love but there is a time and place for everything and during a
> poetry session or the mass are not the times. So you asking a priest to
> clarify something in his mass dialague is analagous to me to asking a poet
> to clarify his poem. It is a dogmatic request in my opinion and I still
> hold that you would look like an idiot and be missing the point of it.
>
> As for the metaphor post, yes I read that book Metaphors we live by and
> loved it also.
> If everything is metaphors then why your statements of the real world/
> literal world vs the metaphorical don't make sense to me. I don't think
> the only problem is a religious person not recognizing that the religous
> metaphor is a metaphor but also a scientist not recognizing that his
> scientific metaphor is a metaphor.
> The gist of the metaphor is the "truth" and I believe you can get to the
> gist in ways other than science (science too though)
>
>
> ian glendinning <psybertron@gmail.com> wrote:
> Erin,
>
> You said
> Science doesn't have all the answers and niether do you.
>
> I say fair enough, can't argue with that .... But do you see any
> a-priori reason why science should be excluded from providing any such
> answers ?
>
> Ian
>
>
> On 4/26/05, Erin wrote:
> > Metaphors are real, Science isn't the only way to truth just one path and
> > I don't need it to explain every mystery to consider the mystery true or
> > real. Science doesn't have all the answers and niether do you.
> > Erin
> >
> >
> > Mark Steven Heyman
> > wrote:
> > msh:
> > The combination of misunderstanding and disrespecting a point-of-view
> > is always comical to me. Erin both misunderstands and disrespects
> > Ant's comments, so, rather than requesting clarification, he/! she
> > attacks, ad hominem:
> >
> > You must be a real hoot at a poetry reading. Everytimethere
> > ispoetic use of a metaphor I can see you shouting out "Lies Lies
> > all lies" you did not qualify your statement of "love is a rose"
> > with "but only in the sense of a beinga non-scientifically known
> > substance". Science can have something to say to say
> > aboutthatmetaphor but the person would look like an idiot and
> > bemissing the point of the poem.
> >
> > msh:
> > Here's the unasked for clarification: Catholics who believe in
> > transubstantion are NOT being metaphorical, or even poetic.
> >
> > Here's what Witt had to say:
> >
> > "If you don't know what the! fuck you're talking about, stop talking
> > and ask, then listen..." - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-
> > Philosophicus
> >
> > Best,
> > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
> > --
> > InfoPro Consultin! g - The Professional Information Processors
> > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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