From: Mark Steven Heyman (MarkHeyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Apr 29 2005 - 18:10:14 BST
On 28 Apr 2005 at 11:33, Platt Holden wrote:
msh said:
I've given you tons of verifiable evidence over the last year. And
you won't believe it no matter who says it, as long as it contradicts your
childlike view of American foreign policy. But here's something from a
reporter who witnessed the US invasion of the Philippines in 1901, this was
before reporters were "embedded" with military units and were able to write
about what they actually saw:
"Our men have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners
and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of 10
up.... Our soldiers have pumped salt water into men to "make them
talk," and have taken prisoners people who held up their hands and
peacefully surrendered, and an hour later. . . stood them on a bridge and
shot them down one by one, to drop into the water below and float down, as
examples to those who found their bullet-loaded corpses."
- Philadelphia Ledger newspaper in 1901, from its Manila
[Philippines] correspondent during the US war with Spain for the
control of the Philippines
platt:
Did I ever claim that U.S. troops never killed, maimed and tortured their
enemies? Did I ever claim that war wasn't hell? .
msh says:
No. But the "enemies" being tortured, maimed, murdered in this case
were Filipinos, most of whom had no idea of why they were being
tortured, maimed, and murdered. Those who did were those awful
"insurgents" who were not amenable to the idea that their country and
its resources should be owned and operated by the US. Sound
familiar?
msh said before:
Last I heard, Japan hadn't been moved to Southeast Asia. Would a
quote from Richard Nixon be specific enough?
"The only place you and I disagree . . . is with regard to the
bombing. You're so goddamned concerned about the civilians, and I (in
contrast) don't give a damn. I don't care.". . . "I'd rather use the
nuclear bomb. . . Does that bother you? I just want you to think big."
- Richard Nixon to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger on the
Watergate tapes
platt:
Did I ever claim Nixon never drank too much?
msh:
No. But the tapes contain numerous similar quotes. Are you
suggesting Nixon was drunk from 68 through 72? But I'm not picking
on Nixon alone. If they were tried under the rules of Nuremberg,
every American president since the end of WWII would be hanged for
crimes against humanity. What's that African proverb: Until lions
have their own historians, the tales of the hunters will be glorious
indeed.
msh said before:
Actually, Cuba, despite its dictatorship, has far better health,
education, and other services for it's poor than does the US, the
wealthiest most privileged country on earth. And this was
accomplished and maintained in the face of now more than 40 years of
American embargoes and other more directly violent acts of terrorism.
platt objects:
Your opinion of Cuba is Hollywood's version.
msh says:
No, I can think of only one hollywood movie that offers in part an
historically accurate interpretation of events leading up to the
Cuban revolution, and beyond. It's Sydney Pollack's "Havana" (Robert
Redford, Lena Olin, Raul Julia), which I recommend for its artistic
accomplishments as well as its secondary political insights.
My understanding of Cuba's humanitarian accomplishments stems from
numerous reports from NGO's such as OXFAM. Here's a link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/castro/sfeature/sf_views_uriarte.html
I know you think PBS is a communist front organization, but give it
read anyway.
platt:
Your "clear record of genocide" is nothing compared to the record set by
your communist friends. Have you no sense of proportion?
msh says:
You mean the mass murderers who called themselves Communists. They
weren't my friends. So 3 million you can live with, but 6 or 10 million
is just TOO much?
platt:
Try 25 million.
msh says:
Try 1. And let's say that one is you or someone you love, sitting in
an apartment hit by a cruise missile, fired by a clueless coward 30
miles safe at sea, because his cowardly superiors have determined
this is the most efficient way to invade and occupy a sovereign
nation, since none of THEIR loved ones will be killed or maimed in
the process.
Best,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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