From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Thu Apr 28 2005 - 16:33:33 BST
Hi MSH:
> msh says:
> I've given you tons of verifiable evidence over the last year. And
> you won't believe it no matter who says it, as long as it contradicts your
> childlike view of American foreign policy. But here's something from a
> reporter who witnessed the US invasion of the Philippines in 1901, this was
> before reporters were "embedded" with military units and were able to write
> about what they actually saw:
>
> "Our men have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners
> and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of 10
> up.... Our soldiers have pumped salt water into men to "make them
> talk," and have taken prisoners people who held up their hands and
> peacefully surrendered, and an hour later. . . stood them on a bridge and
> shot them down one by one, to drop into the water below and float down, as
> examples to those who found their bullet-loaded corpses."
>
> - Philadelphia Ledger newspaper in 1901, from its Manila
> [Philippines] correspondent during the US war with Spain for the
> control of the Philippines
Did I ever claim that U.S. troops never killed, maimed and tortured their
enemies? Did I ever claim that war wasn't hell? .
> msh says:
> Last I heard, Japan hadn't been moved to Southeast Asia. Would a
> quote from Richard Nixon be specific enough?
>
> "The only place you and I disagree . . . is with regard to the
> bombing. You're so goddamned concerned about the civilians, and I (in
> contrast) don't give a damn. I don't care.". . . "I'd rather use the
> nuclear bomb. . . Does that bother you? I just want you to think big."
>
> - Richard Nixon to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger on the
> Watergate tapes
Did I ever claim Nixon never drank too much?
> platt:
> I thought you guys were against free market capitalism because it
> caused economic inequalities and want to use the coercive power of
> government to redistribute income in the name of "social justice."
> msh:
> I don't know if I'm against free-market capitalism; no such socio-
> economic system exists. I have seen the great disparities of wealth
> and privilege created by state-supported capitalist systems, however, and
> yes, I would like to do something about it. But I don't think I'll have to
> come and take your Buick at gunpoint. So relax.
Thanks. You had me worried there for a while.
> msh says:
> Actually, Cuba, despite its dictatorship, has far better health,
> education, and other services for it's poor than does the US, the
> wealthiest most privileged country on earth. And this was
> accomplished and maintained in the face of now more than 40 years of
> American embargoes and other more directly violent acts of terrorism.
Your opinion of Cuba is Hollywood's version.
> But I wasn't thinking of Cuba. Cuba, like Nicaragua in the 80's,
> was too big a success to be left free of American aggression. I was
> thinking of the Mondragon Cooperatives in Spain; or the kibbutzim
> founded 40 years before the establishment of the State of Israel.
You got me there.
> platt:
> And if they really exist and are so wonderful, how come you're not
> there?
>
> msh says:
> Cause I want to stay here and bug people like you.
Now that's the first good reason for anything I've heard from you. :-)
> platt:
> Your "clear record of genocide" is nothing compared to the record set by
> your communist friends. Have you no sense of proportion?
> msh says:
> You mean the mass murderers who called themselves Communists. They
> weren't my friends. So 3 million you can live, but 6 or 10 million
> is just TOO much?
Try 25 million.
Best,
Platt
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