From: Allen Barrows (allen_barrows@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Jun 28 2005 - 17:02:48 BST
Part 1 of 3
Allen wrote:
___________________
. what i am really driving at as a description of the intellectual
level is
Coherence.
So when i talk about coherence i do not talk about coherence theories
of
truth i talk about relationships between static patterns of quality . .
. coherence is a patterned state open to Dynamic influence and the
creative
aspect of symbolic manipulation.
__________________
Allen, thanks for the welcome. I've been here awhile, but can't seem
to put
together the time for these voluminous posts required to keep up.
I looked up 'coherence' in A McWatt's textbook to see if I could get a
grip
on what it means in the MOQ context. 'Cohere' is at 'come together' or
'stick together'. It looks like a replacement of the congruence
between
'subjective' thought and 'objective' physical objects in SOM truth, or
even
the assumed permanence of objects in SOM. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Allen - Hello Steve, thanks for putting together a lengthy thought provocing post.
This coherence thing is a bit tricky to see, but once you see it i think it makes some sense. Try reading 'The edge of Chaos' at the MOQ.org and see if that helps?
Upon reading your words above i think you are on to it.
In the MOQ we recognize of course the impermanent transitory nature of
even
the most seemingly permanent static patterns. If I may diverge from
just
the intellectual level a bit it seems that all of the static patterns
of
evolution can be described as more and more coherent from the most
basic
elements at the inorganic on up. Can we not say that the aim of DQ is
more
evolved and complex patterns of static quality (am I slipping into
teleology)?
Allen - This is it. You have it nailed. We avoid teleology because DQ is both the motivator and aim.
If we look at string theory topography we see perhaps 10 to the 500th
power
'places' of coherence. IOW, there are about this many possible
permutations
of the dynamic flux that could result in stable enough static patterns
to be
recognized as inorganic patterns. The MOQ models this topography
better
than SOM for it 1) has a something to say about the flux between the
stable
valleys, namely DQ, and 2) identifies a 'drive' (for a lack of a better
term) for the flux to 'want' to cascade and fill it all those
possibilities.
IOW, the dynamic flux is motivated towards higher quality, towards more
coherent stability which builds the foundation for further evolution.
Is
this something close to want you mean?
Allen - I like it Steve. You may have just shown that the MOQ provides a metaphysical basis for string theory. Christ. DQ is completely undefined, so we can not associate it with any name or term like valley. Coherence avoids this by utilising DQ as both motivator and aim, while the coherence itself is a relationship between sq patterns.
Another way of thinking about this is to regard DQ as the 'Event stream'. The stream is 'made' of sq patterns and the stream is moving. Coherence is analogous then to stable dissipative structures like whirlpools which use the surrounding flow of energy to maintain thier stability.
This is just an analogy mind you.
Perhaps stable values are instances of coherence?
In any given valley of stability within DQ coherence is necessary for
the
family of static patterns to exist simultaneously. Any pattern that is
not
harmonious with already underlying patterns simply cannot be latched
to, or,
conversely, a new inorganic pattern than is not coherent with the
existing
inorganic patterns may cancel out the old in that space. Thus a new
'bubble
' universe is created.
Thus existence of any static pattern is co-dependent on all of the
contextual static patterns that coexist with it. So relationship
between
patterns is just as essential as the patterns themselves. One might
say
relationship between patterns at a certain level is itself a static
pattern
at a higher level. It is this relationship aspect that is disregarded
in
SOM, though sub-atomic physics is shouting a wake-up call. We do
recognize
this relationship aspect in ecosystems, weather, and other complex
systems
and then promptly ignore it when analyzing particulars. I would say
that is
contradictory and inconsistent.
Allen - Excellent. Superb. The MOQ provides a metaphysical basis for these new relationshp approaches to the life sciences and advanced physics. You are at the cutting edge here Steve and i am not qualified to talk about String theory, but i have studied the MOQ and what you are saying rings well.
Whew! A long prelude to lay the foundation. In a nutshell, coherence
is
the property of a family of static patterns to coexist. Logos, looked
at as
the organizing principle of the Cosmos from an ancient Greek
perspective,
looks fairly similar. Logos, ie, coherence, is necessary for
differentiation to manifest. Or, IOW, harmony is necessary from the
get go
for any static patterns at all. I think this is supported by the
assumptions of string theory.
Continued with Part 2.
Live well,
Steve
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