Re: MD Theism, Non-Theism, Anti-Theism, Nihilism

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@cox.net)
Date: Fri Jul 15 2005 - 23:10:31 BST

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    Ham,

    Ham quotes:
    "[But] the indefinableness of God in a mystical sense comes in fact to be
    indefiniteness; that is, it rules out any definite proposition about the
    Divine essence. Any such proposition means a sort of limitation imposed on
    the Divine, while the latter is incompatible with any limit. The
    ontological *unlimitedness* of God entails for a mystic an epistemological
    indefiniteness: any assertion about God would then be only metaphorical and
    would not serve as an established basis of knowledge."
           --Andrey Smirnov, Oriental Philosophy Dept,, Russia Academy of
    Sciences

    What Smirnov is saying is that we cannot assign any kind of attribute to
    what is already Absolute, except its Unity or "Oneness". The metaphysical
    paradox, then, becomes a logical challenge. What can we say about God in
    order to incorporate it into a workable metaphysics?

    Scott:
    I would say that we also cannot attribute to it Unity or "Oneness". It is
    not One, not Many, not One and Many, not neither One nor Many.

    Ham said:
    Cusa's solution was to construct a logical theory of "otherness".

    "The first principle cannot be other either than an other or than nothing
    and likewise is not opposed to anything"... "The world is not God but is not
    anything other than God." God is "not other", he says, because God is not
    other than any other, even though "not-other" and "other" seem opposed. But
    an "other" is not opposed to God from whom it is derived. Thus, for any
    given non-divine X, X is not other than X, and X is other than not X. What
    is unique about the "divine not-other" is precisely that it is not other
    than either X or not X.

    Now that, gentlemen, is what I regard as a metaphysical breakthrough -- not
    because it "proves the existence" of God or reveals some new aspect of the
    Creator, but because it enables us to deal with a Primary Source in the same
    (logical) way that we deal with existential (created) entities. The
    definition "Not-other" confers on God the "self-sameness" required to
    encompass all finite things into the undifferentiated Absolute One. I
    submit that this is the ontological basis of Theism, Buddhism -- in fact,
    all of the world's religions. IMO, it should also be the basis of any
    valuistic philosophy.

    Scott:
    This is very close to the logic of contradictory identity, which I have been
    tootling on about for a long time, but you have said you don't understand.
    There are two changes I would make. One is to to replace the word "seem"
    with "are": "not-other" and "other" *are* opposed, yet identical. The other
    is to apply this logic to everyday consciousness, value, and intellect, and
    not just to God. One might say that Cusa (and you) are giving a theist
    version of the logic of contradictory identity, which is unnecessarily
    restrictive. The way out is to see this not as a description of a Primary
    Source, but as the source itself, that is, by contradictory identity are all
    things made. The idea is not to "confer on God the "self-sameness" required
    to encompass all finite things into the undifferentiated Absolute One", but
    to treat the finite and differentiated on the one hand, and the infinite and
    undifferentiated on the other, as together being the source by opposing each
    other, while being identical to each other. Otherwise one privileges one
    over the other.

    - Scott

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