From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 07 2005 - 06:48:28 BST
If I may just add an appeal to authority, concerning my use of the
word "individual"
RMP in ZMM p362 says
"My personal feeling is that this is how any further improvement of
the world will be done: by individuals making Quality decisions and
that's all. God, I don't want to have any more enthusiasm for big
programs full of social planning for big masses of people that leave
individual Quality out. These can be left alone for a while. There's a
place for them but they've got to be built on a foundation of Quality
within the individuals involved."
Incidentally "These can be left alone for a while." is in fact exactly
my appeal to stop debating the big global poiltical issues, and
concentrate on the core.
(BTW reminded of these quotes by Dr James Willis paper.
http://www.friendsinlowplaces.co.uk/zen.htm )
Ian
On 8/7/05, ian glendinning <psybertron@gmail.com> wrote:
> Phew, well at least I didn't get completely laughed out of court, so
> that's a start ...
>
> Individual ?
> I was nervous at using the word - "individual IN the world" was the
> best natural language phrase I could come up with. (So Tat Tvam Asi,
> does it for me Scott. DMB "blasphemous" one with "god", but no
> distinct "god", stuff works for me too.)
>
> Theism / Atheism / Antitheism ?
> This only becomes a battle "against" theism, when theists bring their
> god into their explanations and applications of it, the MoQ. Until
> then it's just not-theistic, just not a "relevant" issue. (See the
> line in the sand below.)
>
> The Heretics ?
> Sam, again I hope I chose my words carefully, to be clear without
> causing offence. I wouldn't want the heretics to leave, but I would
> want them to recognise a line drawn in the sand in the debating arena
> (toe the line says DMB) - debates about details of the MoQ and its
> progress vs meta-debates about the relationship of MoQ to alternative
> views. Evolution (of the effects of the MoQ in the world) requires
> "nurture" as well as the red tooth and claw of natural selection. And
> as I said if the theists are "right" the MoQ will allow that pattern
> to evolve further. Have faith.:-)
>
> So, give MoQ a chance was probably all I was really saying (together
> with a definition of what I meant by MoQ when I said it.)
>
> I'll wait for any more responses, but I'd like to achieve a terse
> "definition" of the "truths", on the MoQ side of that line in the
> sand.
>
> Ian
>
> On 8/7/05, Scott Roberts <jse885@cox.net> wrote:
> > DMB,
> >
> > DMB quotes:
> > Pirsig in ZAMM p143:
> > "In all of the Oriental religions great value is placed on the Sanskrit
> > doctrine of Tat tvam asi, "Thou art that," which asserts that everything you
> > think you are and everything you think you perceive are undivided. To
> > realize fully this lack of division is to become enlightened."
> >
> > From Campbell's THOU ART THAT: Transforming Religous Metaphor:
> > "Already in the 8th century B.C., in the Chhandogya Upanisad, the key word
> > to such a meditation is announced; TAT TVAM ASI, "Thou art That", or "You
> > yourself are It!".
> >
> > Scott drags in the Middle Way:
> > One cannot say "thou art That".
> > One cannot say :"thou art not That".
> > One cannot say "thou art both That and not That".
> > One cannot say "thou art neither That nor not That".
> >
> > One cannot say "everything is divided".
> > One cannot say "everything is undivided".
> > One cannot say "everything is both divided and undivided".
> > One cannot say "everything is neither divided nor undivided".
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> >
> >
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>
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