From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 07 2005 - 04:50:36 BST
Phew, well at least I didn't get completely laughed out of court, so
that's a start ...
Individual ?
I was nervous at using the word - "individual IN the world" was the
best natural language phrase I could come up with. (So Tat Tvam Asi,
does it for me Scott. DMB "blasphemous" one with "god", but no
distinct "god", stuff works for me too.)
Theism / Atheism / Antitheism ?
This only becomes a battle "against" theism, when theists bring their
god into their explanations and applications of it, the MoQ. Until
then it's just not-theistic, just not a "relevant" issue. (See the
line in the sand below.)
The Heretics ?
Sam, again I hope I chose my words carefully, to be clear without
causing offence. I wouldn't want the heretics to leave, but I would
want them to recognise a line drawn in the sand in the debating arena
(toe the line says DMB) - debates about details of the MoQ and its
progress vs meta-debates about the relationship of MoQ to alternative
views. Evolution (of the effects of the MoQ in the world) requires
"nurture" as well as the red tooth and claw of natural selection. And
as I said if the theists are "right" the MoQ will allow that pattern
to evolve further. Have faith.:-)
So, give MoQ a chance was probably all I was really saying (together
with a definition of what I meant by MoQ when I said it.)
I'll wait for any more responses, but I'd like to achieve a terse
"definition" of the "truths", on the MoQ side of that line in the
sand.
Ian
On 8/7/05, Scott Roberts <jse885@cox.net> wrote:
> DMB,
>
> DMB quotes:
> Pirsig in ZAMM p143:
> "In all of the Oriental religions great value is placed on the Sanskrit
> doctrine of Tat tvam asi, "Thou art that," which asserts that everything you
> think you are and everything you think you perceive are undivided. To
> realize fully this lack of division is to become enlightened."
>
> From Campbell's THOU ART THAT: Transforming Religous Metaphor:
> "Already in the 8th century B.C., in the Chhandogya Upanisad, the key word
> to such a meditation is announced; TAT TVAM ASI, "Thou art That", or "You
> yourself are It!".
>
> Scott drags in the Middle Way:
> One cannot say "thou art That".
> One cannot say :"thou art not That".
> One cannot say "thou art both That and not That".
> One cannot say "thou art neither That nor not That".
>
> One cannot say "everything is divided".
> One cannot say "everything is undivided".
> One cannot say "everything is both divided and undivided".
> One cannot say "everything is neither divided nor undivided".
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Aug 07 2005 - 08:40:08 BST