Re: MD Enlightenment or Revelation

From: Kevin Perez (juan825diego@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Aug 10 2005 - 00:54:00 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD Self-Evident MoQ Truths"

    Thanks again Platt.

    Change may be good. It may also be bad. But
    spiritual transformation,
    assuming it's directed toward God, Quality, the One,
    the Tao, is always
    good, even if it hurts. And although I believe
    strongly that the source of
    authentic living comes from within, I believe just as
    strongly that life, to
    be authentic, must be lived in community. The quality
    of our relationships
    with one another is really the measure of our
    authenticity...it seems to me.

    I know of two organizations that combine opposing
    ideas in their names. One
    is Contemplative Outreach (founded by Fr. Thomas
    Keating). The other is The
    Center for Action and Contemplation (founded by Fr.
    Richard Rohr).

    The concept, as I understand it, is that you really
    can't have one without
    the other. Even hermits, when they're authentic, are
    active members of
    communities.

    A personal friend shared the following with me
    recently.

        When power meets power, you get conflict.
        When power meets vulnerability, you get
    oppression.
        When vulnerability meets vulnerability, you get
    intimacy.
        And through intimacy you will discover
    transformation.

    I know people who attend 12-step meetings and who
    refer to themselves as
    intimate strangers. Talk about opposing ideas. It's
    absolutely amazing how
    something so organized - there is very real structure
    to these meetings -
    can be so open. It's a true paradox. Like achieving
    freedom through
    surrender.

    Is spiritual transformation synonymous with Dynamic
    Quality? One facet, at
    least? If so, what can we say about Static Quality
    and spirituality?

    Kevin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>;
    <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
    Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 5:30 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Enlightenment or Revelation

    > We are sympatico, Kevin
    >
    > I asked:
    >> > Is it kosher to compare DQ with spirit? Can a
    >> > response to DQ be considered
    >> > a religious/mystic-like experience? Or
    vice-versa?
    >> > I think so.
    >
    > You answered:
    >> I do too.
    >
    >> Spirituality is a word near and dear to my heart.
    The
    >> following words are
    >> from the late Henri Nouwen. "To live a spiritual
    life
    >> we must first find
    >> the courage to enter into the desert of loneliness
    and
    >> to change it by
    >> gentle and persistent efforts into a garden of
    >> solitude."
    >
    > Reminds me of this beautiful passage from Lila,
    Chapter 30:
    >
    > "The Metaphysics of Quality says that what sometimes
    accidentally occurs
    > in an insane asylum but occurs deliberately in a
    mystic retreat is a
    > natural human process called dhyana in Sanskrit. In
    our culture dhyana is
    > ambiguously called "meditation." Just as mystics
    traditionally seek
    > monasteries and ashrams and hermitages as retreats
    into isolation and
    > silence, so are the insane treated by isolation in
    places of relative calm
    > and
    > austerity and silence. Sometimes, as a result of
    this monastic retreat
    > into
    > silence and isolation the patient arrives at a state
    Karl Menninger has
    > described as 'better than cured.' He is actually in
    better condition than
    > he
    > was before the insanity started. Phaedrus guessed
    that in many of these
    > 'accidental' cases, the patient had learned by
    himself not to cling to any
    > static patterns of ideas-cultural, private or any
    other.
    >
    > "In the insane asylum this dhyana is underrated and
    often undermined
    > because there is no metaphysical basis for
    understanding it
    > scientifically. But among religious mystics,
    particularly Oriental
    > mystics, dhyana has been one of the most intensely
    studied practices of
    > all.
    >
    > "This Western treatment of dhyana is a beautiful
    example of how the static
    > patterns of a culture can make something not exist,
    even when it does
    > exist. People in this culture axe hypnotized into
    thinking they do not
    > meditate when in fact they do.
    >
    > "Dhyana was what this boat was all about. It's what
    Phaedrus had bought it
    > for, a place to be alone and quiet and inconspicuous
    and able to settle
    > down into himself and be what he really was and not
    what he was thought to
    > be or supposed to be. In doing this he didn't think
    he was putting this
    > boat to any special purpose. That's what the purpose
    of boats like this
    > has always been . . . and seaside cottages too . . .
    and lake cabins . . .
    > and hiking trails . . . .and golf courses. . . .
    It's the need for dhyana
    > that is behind all these.
    >
    > "Vacations too . . . how perfectly named that is . .
    . a vacation, an
    > emptying out . . . that's what dhyana is, an
    emptying out of all the
    > static clutter and junk of one's life and Just
    settling into an undefined
    > sort of tranquillity."
    >
    > You added:
    >> And the following words are attributed to the Dalai
    >> Lama by Richard Rohr.
    >> "If you can possibly avoid a spiritual path, by all
    >> means do so! It will
    >> take your whole life away."
    >>
    <http://www.cacradicalgrace.org/getconnected/Papacy_printfriendly.html>.
    >>
    >> Spirituality's defining characteristic is
    >> transformation. Pirsig seems to
    >> be saying the same thing about Dynamic Quality.
    >
    > Ah yes. Transformation is the word. That's what
    "born again" refers to.
    > Only it doesn't necessarily mean you become a
    religious fundamentalist. I
    > was born again the first time I heard live in
    concert Rachmaniov's 2nd
    > Piano Concerto. Others are born again on riding a
    motorcycle. Still
    > others when getting high on psychedelic drugs.
    Whatever the moment when
    > spirit (DQ) surrounded you (described in Lila as
    one's first reaction to a
    > wonderful song) , one never forgets it.
    >
    > It's an intensely personal, individual experience,
    which is one reason
    > among others that I celebrate the single, solitary
    person. Without
    > individuals like Shakespeare, Pissarro and Robert
    Pirsig, we end up " . .
    > . swishing old tea around in (our) cup(s)." (Lila,
    3) and evolution grinds
    > to a halt.
    >
    > Best,
    > Platt

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