Re: MD The MOQ in Hollywood

From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 14 2005 - 07:42:02 BST

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    Look Mark (me old mate ;-) )
    This one's deadly serious - no joking.
    I know you set this thread up as a challenge to Platt.

    Let me cut to the issue (for me).
    What makes a good debate / argument / case ?

    In this case you are about to trade stereotypical (right wing)
    Hollywood expressions of US macho dominance, with whatever left wing
    propaganda Platt throws back at you. You're all ears, we can't wait.
    Anyone keeping score ?

    In another thread you said - I deal in tightly reasoned logic, not ad
    hominem attacks, and I wouldn't dispute that.

    What I would argue is than NEITHER trading stereotypical propaganda,
    NOR tightly reasoned logic are high quality arguments for MoQ-Discuss.

    This is where I came in on MoQ-Discuss, 3 years ago ?, mainly arguing
    with DM, DMB and Platt as I recall - that tightly reasoned logic was
    the problem that MoQ was trying to break / fix. There are better
    quality arguments to be had, rhetoric and humour for a start, but it's
    the whole Zen half of the story that's missing.

    Was it Marsha or Erin who asked "Where is the Zen ?"

    For some arguments numbers and logic are the worst tools. Geddit ?

    I'll stop there for effect ;-)
    (Either that or quote "The Cornflowers" again.)
    Ian

    On 8/13/05, Mark Steven Heyman <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
    > On 13 Aug 2005 at 8:32, Platt Holden wrote:
    > Now if you want to talk about the influence of Hollywood per Pirsig
    > and the way directors, producers and writers slip leftist propaganda
    > into movies, I'm all ears.
    >
    > msh:
    > Ok. Gimme an example of leftist propaganda in a "Hollywood" movie.
    > Please include quotes and references. For every example you come up
    > with, I'll find a hundred supporting anti-labor or military jingoist
    > bullshit like "On the Waterfront", "The Green Berets" or, more
    > recently, "Hanoi Hilton", "Top Gun," "Red Dawn" or anything written
    > by Tom Clancy, or just about anything starring Sylvester Stallone,
    > Bruce Willis, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    >
    > As you say, bring it on. This will be fun. I love da movies. I
    > love books more, but movies, apparently, are more accessible to
    > people who haven't figgered out how to get a library card.
    >
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
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    >
    > "Love is the answer - but while you're waiting for the answer, sex
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    >
    > -- Woody Allen
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