Re: MD Essentialist and anti-essentialist

From: David M (davidint@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Tue Aug 30 2005 - 19:48:33 BST

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    Scott: The usual use of "essentialist" in philosophy is to claim the reality
    of the
    > essence of things beyond the transitory appearance ("existence") of
    > things.
    > It is, as far as I can tell, the same universalist stand as opposed to the
    > nominalist: horses are horses because they have partake in horseness,
    > which
    > exists (if one is an essentialist) in addition to the particular horses. A
    > Platonic Form, in short, which a nominalist or anti-essentialist (same
    > thing, as far as I can see) will call "just" a word or concept.
    >

    DM: Materialism is also essentialist in terms of claiming that there
    is some ultimate simple that is more real than other phenomena.

    Scott:> However, suppose one doesn't insist that all essences be eternal and
    > unchanging. Then the MOQ would appear to be essentialist, only it calls
    > essences "static patterns of value".

    DM: I think that is bending the word too far, if it is
    historical/contingent/chosen it is not essential.
    Therefore I thinkthe below is unjustified.

    Scott: Note that a particular horse in a given
    > instant is not an SPOV. Rather it instantiates SPOV (by being a horse,
    > also
    > by being a particular horse, say Trigger, over time). Because it follows a
    > bunch of SPOV we can to some extent predict its behavior. And we can talk
    > about it. Without essences there would be no language. But Paul (and
    > probably Pirsig) claim that the MOQ is anti-essentialist. From this I
    > guess
    > one must conclude that they assume that until there was language, there
    > were
    > no SPOV. But if that were the case how could there have ever been a horse,
    > even if there was no one around to say "that is a horse"?

    DM: language implies a universal claim, it does not mean that it is not a
    historical
    contingent. I think you are confused. The point of the DQ/SQ distinction is
    to proclaim that there is not essential being, rather a continuous pouring
    of
    SQ into existence, some SQ is more common than other, some SQ has been
    around a long time, in the end it probably all comes from and goes back to
    the
    abyss. Any thoughts otherwise are probably just a time frame error.

    >
    > In other words, one cannot say that essences exist, and one cannot say
    > that
    > essences do not exist, etc.
    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: <hampday@earthlink.net>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:32 AM
    > Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: MD the MOQ conference hoax
    >
    >
    >
    > Erin, Platt --
    >
    >
    > Platt asked:
    >
    >> I don't know if I'm essentialist or anti-essentialist since I have no
    >> idea
    >> what the term means. Does it have anything to do with Ham's essentialism?
    >
    > I've been wondering the same thing. I note that Erin uses the phrase
    > "more
    > left-wing as anti-essentialist". Can we infer that "right wingers" are
    > Essentialists? If so, maybe there's some hope yet for raising the current
    > administration's flagging public opinion numbers. (Since Pirsig is
    > considered to be anti-essentialist, I assume it is the politically correct
    > MoQ position.)
    >
    > Could you enlighten us with a definition, Erin? Perhaps I can use it in
    > my
    > thesis.
    >
    > Ham
    >
    >
    >
    >
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