From: David Zentgraf (deceze@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Sep 05 2005 - 03:41:02 BST
Hi Platt,
>> We can't localize it,...
> You localize it as "proprietary to every individual."
In the end you can only localise the physical circumstances that lead
to the production of consciousness, which you will usually find
belonging to what we call "individuals". To localise consciousness,
the subjective feeling itself, though is quite hard, if not impossible.
>> universalize it,...
> You universalize it
> by suggesting "Everything in the universe is other to me."
That's universalising everything else outside of consciousness, not
consciousness itself.
>> ...or even prove it.
> You prove it by
> writing "we can't even prove it." (Only human consciousness can
> write.)
Human consciousness is part of the physical process which leads to
what others perceive as writing. Try proving the subjective feeling
itself though.
> As you know, consciousness to me is something my brain, and the
> bulb of
> nervous tissue of all critters, taps into. But, that's an argument for
> another day.
I'd be interested in that argument. You're saying that consciousness
is something "out of this world", some higher sphere not belonging to
this physical reality, and our brains are our physical connection
that tap into it...? Please explain and define consciousness from
this point of view.
Chrs,
Dav
On 2005/09/04, at 23:53, Platt Holden wrote:
> Hi Ham,
>
> In general, I agree with you that consciousness (awareness) is
> characteristic of individuals, the corollary being there's no such
> thing
> as "collective consciousness." But, your final paragraph seems to
> contradict itself in several respects.
>
>
>> Because
>> conscious awareness is subjective it is unlike anything else in
>> the realm
>> of scientific or philosophical investigation. We can't create it,
>> localize
>> it, measure it, universalize it, predict it, or even prove it.
>> But, if the
>> truth be told, it's the most "genuine" reality we have.
>>
>
> You localize it as "proprietary to every individual." You
> universalize it
> by suggesting "Everything in the universe is other to me." You
> prove it by
> writing "we can't even prove it." (Only human consciousness can
> write.)
>
> As you know, consciousness to me is something my brain, and the
> bulb of
> nervous tissue of all critters, taps into. But, that's an argument for
> another day.
>
> Best,
> Platt
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