From: -Peter (pcorteen@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Sep 08 2005 - 22:50:22 BST
Platt, I don't agree. You said:
He (Pirsig) says we know (experience) low quality before we know
(understand)
anything else.
Where does he say that? You are paraphrasing him and putting your own spin.
You then quote Pirsig:
"But that the quality is low is absolutely certain." (Lila, 5)
I think this sentence is a bit loose. To have a feeling of certainty
requires time for reflection. An event has taken place; let's say you touch
a hot stove unintentionally - your skin is damaged even before your brain
succeeds in making you react. The damaged skin is the the site of the
'primary empirical reality', knowing, even if you equate it to perception,
occurs in the brain.
It is the primary empirical reality from which such things as stoves and
heat
and oaths and self are later intellectually constructed." (Lila, 5)
I think this bears out clearly that knowing occurs after the event.
And as for:
Great Art is ...... transparency to the Divine through beauty.
Why the capitol 'D' ? Is this a new god ?
-Peter
On 9/8/05, Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Hello -Peter,
>
> > Hello Platt,
> >
> > you said 'A newborn knows what it likes before it knows anything else';
> but
> > I'd say a newborn knows nothing; it just experiences at first and then
> > later a residue of some kind is laid down and gradually the patterns and
> > habits form - only then does it start to know.
>
> We're each using "know" differently. I'm using it to mean "to perceive
> directly." You're using it to mean "to have understanding." So a baby with
> a wet diaper knows( perceives) a low quality situation and cries although
> it doesn't know (understand) diapers, wetness, urinating, etc.
>
> > 'The great thing about art' was your phrase referring to freedom of
> choice
> > of subject and attempts to reach bliss; for me it is about newness and
> > fresh ideas; it could be a new way of working rather than a new subject
> but
> > the finished product would still reflect something new.
>
> Great. Art is open to what we want from it. For Marsha it's freedom, for
> you it's newness, for me it's transparency to the Divine through beauty.
> All are equally legitimate.
>
> > I still think we only know AFTER the experience - isn't this what
> Pirsig's
> > stove example illustrates ?
>
> He says we know (experience) low quality before we know (understand)
> anything else. "But that the quality is low is absolutely certain. It is
> the primary empirical reality from which such things as stoves and heat
> and oaths and self are later intellectually constructed." (Lila, 5)
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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