From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Sep 14 2005 - 19:00:33 BST
Mark,
This is very creative, but not quite where I expected to go (it was
just a caveat, an aside in the thread we were in to remind us of the
lingusitic pitfalls in discussing social and intellectual patterns.)
Anyway, that said there is just one thing wrong with your primary /
secondary split for me, and that is the choice of which is primary
(and vice-versa). I think we're agreeing there are different
perspectives (to use the word Paul has just introduced) into our view
of any given pattern.
So a "lump of coal" might be primarily a physical (sorry, inorganic) pattern.
But a "tablet of stone" (with or without words already scratched on
it) might be considered "primarily" social (linguistic) despite being
stone first (historically).
Before jumping to one particular model, and diving off down all the
aspects of fit with the MoQ "as she is writ" moral priority,
degeneracy, the lot, lets just agree we've agreed there are multiple
aspects for considering any one pattern ?
(Purely by accident, by choosing a lump vs a tablet, I apear also to
have stumbled in to the form and formlessness issue through which
Paul's suggestion sprang ?)
Ian
On 9/14/05, mark maxwell <laughingpines@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Ian:
> What you also have highlighted again, and I hope Mark
> is noting too, is simply the distinction between
>
> ** the conceptualised ideas (overall an intellectual
> pattern),
>
> ** its language of representation (an arrangement of
> diagrams and words with semantic definitions) and
>
> ** its medium of expression (e-mail, graphics, font,
> ink on paper, carved in stone)
>
> Ian.
>
> Hello Ian,
> I've been trying to see what you are after and i
> suggest an answer may be to introduce a secondary sq
> ontology. Maybe not! ;)
>
> Any given Secondary sq ontology is constructed by
> higher levels from lower levels.
>
> You provide an examples:
> "...its (intellectual pattern) medium of expression
> (e-mail, graphics, font, ink on paper, carved in
> stone)"
> Stone is primary sq inorganic patterns (geology).
> Carved stone may be regarded as a secondary sq
> inorganic patterns (writing - social or intellectual).
>
> Following on from this:
>
> Ink is a secondary sq pattern, as is paper.
> Written word transforms these again (graphics, font).
> Terminology becomes problematic here, but there is a
> 'downward' hierarchy of value influence, which is
> moral.
>
> E-mail is a sophisticated mass/energy relationship of
> secondary sq inorganic patterns.
>
> There are examples of degeneracy; shell degenerates
> into chalk which becomes rock. Chalk may be used to
> write E = Mc2.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
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