Re: MD Pirsig the postmodernist?

From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Mar 03 2003 - 18:23:20 GMT

  • Next message: Valence: "Re: MD Pirsig the postmodernist?"

    >Hey David,
    >
    >DMB
    > >I should have said, "Pirsig's attack is upon a METAPHYSICS of >substance,
    >but not the data, properties or values from which we >deduce substance" or
    >something like that. Its not easy to be precise >about this, which is why I
    >am so impressed with your efforts on this >matter.
    >
    >RICK
    >Thanks for the kind words David. Now if we could just find a way to see
    >eye to eye on this whole 'pragmatism' thing :)

    I still don't think David got it, I think his flattery distracted you, but
    it still seems like he's only stepping back one step, saying that the data,
    properties and values from which we deduce substance may only IMPLY that
    substance is real, but he still seems to think that substance is as real as
    it was before. I think it is much more profound. I'm not saying it isn't
    real, just that's its reality is CREATED by the data patterns. "It From
    Bit", is the term the physicist John Wheeler coined for this "backwards"
    understanding.

    >
    >DMB
    > > I should add that the shift from substance to inorganic patterns of
    >value
    > > also manages to save the data and the world without making any kind of
    > > declarations about what is really is. He seems to be saying is that all
    >we
    > > have are the data and that is quite enough. We don't have some deduced
    >thing
    > > in which qualities appear, we just have the qualites or values
    >themselves.
    >
    >RICK
    >Yes!!! I think we're now in complete agreement on this whole 'substance'
    >thing.

    That does seem closer, but I still think you both are resisting the
    implications.

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