From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Oct 20 2005 - 11:37:46 BST
Scott, David, Mark,
Mark's original proposition was about intellect, as was Scott's response.
Marks supplementary clarification to me was about "life", not
intellect, and I answered it that way - limited to life only.
Scott seems to have latched onto my expression of doubt that Marks
definition of intellect may not be complete - it was only the
limitation of "manipulation of symbols" that I doubted. (It's the word
"symbol" that leaves me doubting we have our perfect defintion of
intellect - but only doubting, not rejecting.)
I'm reasonably happy that "cybernetics" can be considered to have
intellect as well as life (In principle and in practice when it's
suitably developed.) Hence I was and still am, happy with Mark's
cybernetic description of evolving loops with feedback.
Semiosis - information (created / manipulated symbolically / whatever)
with "meaning" - I may have to pass on for now (despite being an
"informationalist"). I suspect it's the replicating / feeding-back /
evolutionary aspect that causes "meaning" to emerge in higher layers -
so there is information in rocks, but no meaning in isolation.
Aside - thinking out loud - I also suspect it's something to do with
when "proximate" cause is backed up by remote causes (aka purposes) in
a higher layer segeregated by one or more processes of emergence. I'm
beginning to think the natural language distinction between cause and
purpose may be pretty fundamental in this way. (Cause is simple and
direct, Purpose is higher order, indirect and more complex - something
like that.)
Ian
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