From: Michael Hamilton (thethemichael@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Oct 24 2005 - 00:15:25 BST
Platt,
On 10/21/05, Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> Mike:
>
> > > Platt:
> > > I agree. Why aren't booze, cigarettes and drugs all treated the same?
> > > Either ban them all, or legalize them all I say.
> >
> > Mike:
> > Well, we all know how counter-productive Prohibition was...
>
> Right. So let's go with legalization.
>
> Mike:
> > I should clarify that I was using "ego" in the sense of "small self",
> > as it is called in Buddhism; in other words, the "self" as conceived
> > through the subject/object dichotomy - separate and alone. "Dissolving the
> > ego" could be rephrased as the transition from small self to big self. "Big
> > self" could still be seen as a kind of ego, if you want, but it's an ego
> > that doesn't feel itself to be eternally separate, because it is engaged in
> > Quality activity - like painting or motorcycle repair. If Mother Teresa was
> > being "selfish", it was definitely in the sense of "big self", because
> > there can be no doubt that she was engaged in Quality, caring activity.
> > Note that "small self" and "big self" will have strikingly different
> > notions of what activities are in the interests of the "self".
> >
> > So to answer your question, I do belive that "small self" egos are bad and
> > ought to be dissolved.
>
> Platt:
> Disagree. Small self is required to make the "big self" meaningful, just
> as you can't conceive of the one without the many, or large without small.
Isn't that like arguing that you can't make a value judgement between
any pair of opposites? You might as well be saying that conservatism
is no better than liberalism, simply because they contrast :D
> > > In another post, Platt asks Rebecca:
> > > As for finding out what exactly DQ is, I wonder if you and others think
> > > it's necessary to trip out in order to experience DQ?
> >
> > Mike:
> > Like I said, there are an infinite number of Quality/caring activities that
> > can break down the barriers between subject and object, or in other words
> > convert small self into big self. I would even say that if one DOESN'T
> > engage in this sort of activity on a fairly regular basis, one's
> > psychedelic experience is likely to be very unpleasant. Terrifying, even.
> >
> > The unique thing about psychedelics is that, as well as breaking down
> > the subject/object barriers, they allow you to plumb the depths of
> > human awareness, and explore the possibilities of the big self. Pirsig
> > talks about the "mechanic's feel" in ZMM, where the mechanic is conscious
> > of all the properties of the motorcycle, the give-and-take of its most
> > minute components. The psychedelic user can gain this "mechanic's feel" for
> > just about anything, including the minds of others.
>
> Platt:
> Hmmm. I wonder why, if drugs are so useful, why Pirsig wrote: "Things like
> sex and booze and drugs and- tobacco have a high biological quality, that
> is, they feel good, but are harmful for social reasons. They take all your
> money. They break up your family. They threaten the stability of the
> community."
Mike:
I think that quote is very insightful up to a point - up to the point
where Pirsig lumps all drugs together - together with sex, booze and
tobacco, which were all good examples. The best examples are the most
addictive and most expensive drugs, like heroin and cocaine. They take
all your money. They break up your family. In addition, they fuel
organised crime. All low social quality.
Now, move along the scale to tobacco and booze. The same problems are
there, to a lesser degree (at least, tobacco certainly doesn't break
up families like heroin or, yes, booze can), except their legality
removes the organised crime problem. However, there are clear
social-level benefits that balance the social-level problems, to some
degree. In moderation, a couple of drinks can be extremely beneficial
on the social level.
In fact, the more I think about it, the less enchanted I am about the
Pirsig quote you gave. It's abundantly clear that the low quality of
tobacco and booze is spread over the biological and social levels.
Lung cancer? Liver failure? Likewise, the benefits of booze are spread
over the biological and social levels. Yes, they "feel good", but the
good feeling isn't merely a biological sensation; it can also be an
improved connection with your friends. It's notable that these
benefits tend to disappear when moderation is abandoned.
It only remains for me to assert that psychedelics can have enormous
social-level benefits.
> Platt:
> As you and others have pointed out, drugs can be highly dangerous, like
> playing with fire. Nor am I convinced that taking drugs leads to any
> greater insights about reality than other "losing self" activities you
> mention. To be convinced that one has somehow broken through to a
> "higher" state of consciousness while on drugs seems dubious to me, just
> as dubious as those who believe they were abducted by aliens.
Mike:
Understandable. Ther is _no reason whatsoever_ why you should blindly
accept the claims made by myself and others, any more than you should
accept the claims of "UFOlogists" or whatever. The only way is to see
for yourself...
> Platt:
> Anyway, hard
> to prove one way or another that drug-induced reality is the "real"
> reality, nor that it's much different than the experience of "born again"
> which is usually obtained without the aid of drugs.
Mike:
Your love of Pirsig and your scare quotes around "real" show that you
know perfectly well that there is no single "real" reality. I would
never claim that the psychedelic experience is "more real" than
straight experience, because it's a meaningless claim. Reality (as
Quality) is the sum total of actual and potential
awareness/consciousness. I won't rub your face in the implications
that has for psychedelic use.
Regards,
Mike
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