From: Case (Case@iSpots.com)
Date: Wed Nov 09 2005 - 19:40:24 GMT
[David M]
Not bad, not perfect.
'Value quantifies quality' you seem to say, something in it, but somethings
can
have very high value or equal value but have very different qualities.
[Case]
Or at least helps to establish relationships among competeing aspects of
Quality. Give me and example of "somethings can
have very high value or equal value but have very different qualities."
[David M]
Also, how does DQ relate to SQ.
[Case]
They are both aspects of Quality.
[David M]
Is the cosmos not teeming with SQ, bursting forth with new SQ, is this
abundance and creativity not what
DQleaves in its trail?
[Case]
It is what Quality leaves in its trail. It leaves somethings stationary and
somethings wiggling. Give me an example of anything that is purely static.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rebecca Temmer <mailto:ratemmer.lists@gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: MD A Question of Balance / Rules of the Game
Hey Case,
You wrote:
I have argued repeatedly that having a multiple undefined
terms is folly. So
I will present as nearly as possible in sound bites, the
main terms of the
MoQ as they seem Good to me.
Quality - Undefined - the Tao. When apprended in its purest
form it reflects
the union or balance between opposites. It is the monism
from which all
dualisms spring. As Lao Tsu put it: "When named it is the
mother of all
things." Perceptually it is harmony or balance. To pursue it
is to follow
The Way of Virtue. It is undefined not for mystical or
esthetic reason but
for practical reasons. It is 'reality' and 'reality' is
unknowable as
Heisenburg, Godel, Wilson, Hume, Kant, and just about anyone
who thinks
about much can testify. Our apprehension of Quality is
limited by our very
nature.
Value - Is the quantification of Quality. The hot stove is
Low Quality or
better yet Negative Quality. It repels us. But consider for
a moment a
merely warm stove. It may not be so hot as to burn you. It
may be the only
place in the room to sit. If it is turned on and the
temperature is
increasing, this increase can be measured and assigned a
numerical value.
You can even take note of which specific Values individuals
find to hot to
handle. Value is undervalued in these MoQ discussions.
Values can be
assigned to dualistic opposites in many ways. We like or
dislike things
esthetically. We give it a thumbs up or thumbs down. Or we
like it a lot and
give it 4 stars. Or Values can be specified with increasing
precision
leading to math and physics which are all about the
relationships and
interaction of Values. The point being that in the MoQ both
physics and art
are all about the interplay of Values.
Dynamic - A much abused term in these discussions. It's
meaning seems to
range from the undefined to the mystical to the intellect to
the warm
fuzziness of the ineffablly groovy. Mostly it seems to be
redundantly
identified with Quality itself. Pirsig himself contributes
to this
confusion. The term has extraordinary Value when taken a
face Value. That is
Dynamic means change, flux, motion. From the wave property
of matter to the
a priori concept of time to the paradigm shift in ideas; the
dynamic can be
assigned Value from positive and negative to specific
quantification of rate
of change.
Static - The opposite of dynamic as any dualistic pole
should be. Static
means stable, fixed, orderly.
I would love to go on and on about how useful this version
of MoQ is but I
have thus far been unable to get anyone to even say that it
is bad or
misguided. I do not find this formulation to be at odds with
what Pirsig
says. I also think it cuts through many of the arguments
going on here and
paves the way for intergration of the MoQ into a broad range
of subjects
from evolution to theology.
Rebecca replies:
So, I'll agree with you on pretty much the entire thing.
That's what the terms static (not moving) and dynamic (moving) mean.
If you would hop over to the thread I started on the Holy Trinity,
on which I will post a response to DMB's question perhaps we could continue
this conversation. :)
Looking forward to your response...
Rebecca
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