Re: MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality

From: -Peter (pcorteen@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Nov 17 2005 - 10:59:10 GMT

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    I think; not even the inorganic level is purely static and not even the most
    spontanious flashlight of an idea entirely dynamic. Nothing lasts forever,
    but nothing ever dies out completely.

    -Pete

    On 16/11/05, Scott Roberts <jse885@localnet.com> wrote:
    >
    > Bo,
    >
    > Some obvious objections:
    >
    > Bo said:
    > Different premises can give rise to different conclusion without
    > logic itself being faulty. I should have used "subject/object
    > premises" to delineate the intellectual level.
    >
    > Scott:
    > This would make all philosophers (except Descartes) non-intellectual,
    > since
    > philosophers are those who question premises. I think you have a valid
    > point
    > that most people most of the time act as if S/O[1] were true, that that is
    > their premise (what philosophers call the "natural attitude"). There is
    > also
    > a valid point (shared with Barfield) that intellect and S/O[1] dualism
    > arose
    > together (that S/O makes intellect possible in human development). But it
    > is
    > also the intellect that can question the natural S/O attitude, and has,
    > and
    > has proposed different premises, and can lead us out of the natural S/O
    > attitude. The MOQ is only a recent example of this questioning and attempt
    > at replacement. Thus I think you could justifiably say that the S/O[1]
    > premises are the basis of the fourth level, but it is silly to call it the
    > intellectual level. Intellect has the capability of transcending all
    > levels
    > (all premises).
    >
    > Bo said:
    > To expand logic itself is hardly possible but shifting premises
    > (that logic uses to arrive at conclusions) is possible, and my - um
    > - logic is that the different Q-levels can be regarded as different
    > "premises".
    >
    > Scott:
    > Which puts logic outside of all levels, which must make it part of DQ.
    >
    > Bo said (to Rebecca):
    > Yes you are right, SOL says that S/O is the 4th level's premises,
    > thus MOQ's DQ/SQ premises is something beyond, and for
    > goodness sake Rebecca the 4th level is supposed to be STATIC.
    > The tendency to regard it as a mental compartment where an
    > endless succession of ideas fights for the top perch is
    > inconsistent with anything static.
    >
    > Scott:
    > Isn't the word for "fighting for ideas", which is anything but static,
    > intellect?
    >
    > Bo said:
    > Yes from the said Q-premises which sees intellect for what it
    > really is: Just another static level.
    >
    > Scott:
    > So do you claim that Pirsig used something other than intellect to come up
    > with the MOQ? Or must we treat the MOQ as revelation?
    >
    > - Scott
    >
    >
    >
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    --
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Peter Corteen
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