RE: FW: RE: MD Calling all atheists

From: Case (Case@iSpots.com)
Date: Wed Nov 23 2005 - 13:29:48 GMT

  • Next message: Case: "RE: MD Calling all atheists"

    [Case]
    Matt, is doing a fine job with this but I can't resist adding that purpose
    is another of those hard to define terms that tend to subtract more than it
    adds to our understanding. I don't even agree that continued existance is a
    purpose. Purpose in most definitions implies a goal and intentionality. To
    say nature has a purpose suggests that it is being directed toward
    something. This is letting teleology in the back door by suggesting that
    some desired future state is determining present events.

    I think there is purpose in nature in so far as we as a species define our
    own purpose and to the extent that we are a part of nature, it could be said
    that nature has purpose. But to say that the wind blows fast because it is
    in a hurry or that a tree stretches forth its branches because it intends to
    soak up sunlight is crossing the line.

    Purpose like beauty is intrinstic to us. They are important to us but they
    are emergant properties of us which are not fruitfully projected to the rest
    of nature.
     
    ----------------------------
    Platt said:Since we as much a part of nature as rocks and trees and the
    weather,
      and
    since we exhibit purpose I don't see much of leap to suggest nature is
    purposeful. I would ask, "What is the purpose of saying nature has no
    purpose?"

    Poot: I think first I should clarify what I mean as "purpose" . I want to
    stress the differences in the word, between what human minds have concocted
    as "purpose" , which I, and others seem to experience as some sort of
    intangible guildeline(maybe not the right word) set before us. There is
    also the purpose of individual events (i.e gathering food to satisfy
    hunger, or something ).

    What I mean when I say "Nature has no purpose, etc. has no purpose" is that
    when you look at things completely abstractly, detaching from associations
    of the static levels, then there is no purpose for it.

    Can you say what the ultimate purpose of the existence of anything is? to
    be purposeful, something must achieve some sort of endcome, and have some
    sort of start. As far as we know, and will ever know (never say never
    though I guess) will not be able to ascertain whether there should be, or
    ever was a starting point for the universe, for we know that It will never
    end (even if everything collapses back to a singularity , or into
    nothingness, existence still remains).

    dont have much more time, hope this helps.

    matt

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