Re: MD Undeniable Facts

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Thu Apr 24 2003 - 07:15:38 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD Undeniable Facts"

    Dear Platt,

    I had the hope that we agreed on the need for both absolutes and relativity
    in the MoQ, but my hope was diminished again by your requirement 22 Apr 2003
    07:54:04 -0400 that I agree with [the MoQ being] 'absolute in its inner
    integrity' and your explanation 23 Apr 2003 08:07:12 -0400 that this would
    imply agreeing that Pirsig's statements in 'Lila' are logically consistent
    with each other and with the overall framework of the MoQ.
    For me Pirsig is only a fallible human. (In 'Lila's Child' he also admits
    that he would have wanted to have written some things in 'Lila' different in
    hindsight.)
    Logical consistency of texts depends at least partly on the context in which
    the reader reads it. (Pirsig doesn't define everything, so readers have to
    depend on their own definitions and experiences to give some of it meaning.
    These will be different from Pirsig's at some points and sometimes make the
    text inconsistent.)
    Last but not least the MoQ for me (as you know by now) is not to be found in
    Pirsig's words only. It is an intellectual pattern of value that to an
    increasing extent is to be found in texts of others, predominantly on this
    list (and hardly outside) I fear.

    I leave it to you to tell what you mean with the MoQ being an "absolute
    metaphysics" (if you feel the need). You introduced the statement 21 Apr
    2003 10:28:55 -0400:
    'Perhaps we can agree that Pirsig presents an absolute metaphysics wherein
    relativity is allowed free reign.'

    This statement seemed plausible enough for me even without explanation. I
    just had a hunch that the need for both absolutes and relativity could also
    be expressed in another way (a relative metaphysics which values absolute
    statements). It must have to do something with Goedel's theorem, which
    Jonathan reminded us of 15 Apr 2003 09:24:16 +0300. In my understanding:
    whatever you understand as absolute in a symbolic representation of
    something else, you will always have to leave something out that becomes
    more relative because of the stress you lay on absolute truth of your
    representation. The very difference of representation and represented
    precludes absolute consistency between the two.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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