Re: MD Structuralism in Pirsig

From: Paul Turner (pauljturner@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu Jun 05 2003 - 21:25:14 BST

  • Next message: johnny moral: "Re: RE: MD MOQ human development and the levels"

    Hi Johnny

    > I think Paul provides an example of an "ahistorical,
    > universal priveleged
    > position" in his last posting to the Re: RE: MD MOQ
    > human development and
    > the levels thread:

    Or it could be considered a statement of an idea that
    I value. That depends, of course, on your judgement.

    >
    > "Yes, Nobel prizes and sounding good in a discussion
    > group are examples of the high quality that social
    > patterns give to status. The ‘approval’ of ideas is
    > of
    > higher value than the ‘truth’ of them to a society
    > or
    > community."

    'Truth' is my shorthand for an intellectual pattern of
    value which provides a high quality explanation of
    experience. I thought I could get away without having
    to write that everytime on this forum
     
    > Now, Paul does put quotes around 'truth', so maybe
    > he's not being
    > ahistorical, but he's certainly implying a
    > privileged position in the
    > assumption that society doesn't do an accurate job
    > of approving or not
    > approving.

    Accuracy doesn't come into it, that would be like
    asking - which is the most accurate poem? The point I
    was making was that social quality is about what will
    keep the society together, it is opposed to any
    intellectual patterns of value that threatens to break
    its patterns up and supportive of ideas that keep the
    society together, such ideas may be rewarded with
    prizes and social authority. Socially, that's moral,
    intellectually it's degenerate. Intellectual patterns
    of value are also opposed to each other if they
    conflict and seem generally opposed to Dynamic
    Quality.

     but in the (continuing) end it is
    > society that judges the
    > truth of an idea

    Is that another ahistorical, universal, priviledged
    position? Or a statement of an idea you value?

    Johnny, I sent a post to you last week, it pretty much
    covers my views on the subject of 'universal truth'.
    Here is the last paragraph again:

    In Zen Buddhism a favoured symbol / character to
    describe the nature of zen is called ‘enso’. It is a
    circle brushed slightly differently every time it is
    drawn, but most importantly it is never joined up to
    form a closed circle. This, the sages say, is because
    if the circle is closed, it closes itself off from the
    ultimate nature of reality, change. I think that is a
    good analogy to the MOQ.

    cheers

    Paul

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