From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2003 - 22:22:59 BST
-----Original Message-----
From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com [mailto:SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 1:44 PM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD date of homo sapiens
sq: More absolute garbage from the 'garbage supremo' Dave 'DuMB' Buchanan.
Does anyone take this asshole seriously?
Language, which is the manipulation of symbols, is more than 3,000 years
old. Therefore, the intellectual level is far older by a very long score
than 3,000 years. How a statement like this can be dropped without any sense
of irony is staggering.
DuMB's arrogance is startlingly ludicrous, and only surpassed by his
inability to deliver one original insight.
dmb says:
I think I see the theory you're operating with here. You'd rather be hated
than ignored, right?
sq: I could not care less about being ignored. I simply wish for the MoQ to
be presented correctly.
Charley says:
Nagative attention is better than nothing, huh? You figure that if you can't
raise my interest with thoughts and questions about the MOQ, that the second
best thing would to evoke some kind of response by throwing out scatological
insults. Sorry to disappoint you, but I find your attempts at abuse to be
just as boring, vague and incoherent as the rest of your posts. Yawn!
sq: Do you know how arrogant and narcissistic that sounds?
Charly says:
Yes, obviously, language is more than three thousand years old. Squawnk's
mistake is the assumption that intellectual values are required in order to
speak a language. This just isn't so. Language first emerged as part of the
social level, along with her cousins myth and ritual.
sq:
'For purposes of MOQ precision, let's say that the
intellectual level is the same as mind. It is the
collection and manipulation of symbols, created in the
brain, that stand for patterns of experience.' Lila's
Child
'Intellect is simply thinking' Lila's Child
sq: From Paul's recent clarification:
Intellectual patterns of value.
The collection and manipulation of symbols, created in
the brain, that stand for patterns of experience.
An idea, concept, or thought representing a specific
experience - biological, social, or Dynamic - but
stored in memory (not just biological memory, e.g.
books) as an abstraction from the experience.
The symbol can then be manipulated in its own right
without specific reference to the experience that
created it. Intellectual realities are constructed
from the symbols by making generalisations,
assumptions and associations.
sq: I think you will find that includes myth.
There is a large discrepancy between what Mr. Pirsig says and your opinion.
PIRSIG from chapter 30
"Philosophers usually present their ideas as sprung from "nature" or
sometimes from "God," but Phadreus thought neither of these was completely
accurate. The logical order of things which the philosophers study is
derived from the "mythos".The mythos is the social culture and the rhetoric
which the culture must invent before philosophy becomes possible. Most of
this religious talk is nonsense, of course, but nonsense or not, it is the
PARENT of our modern scientific talk. This "mythos over logos" thesis agreed
with the MOQ's assertion that intellectual static patterns of quality are
built up out of social static quality. Digging back into ancient Greek
history, to the time when this mythos-to logos transition was taking
place...."
sq: The mythos of social culture and rhetoric is intellectual. Culture and
rhetoric here involve: 'The collection and manipulation of symbols, created
in the brain, that stand for patterns of experience.' It may not be
philosophy, but it is intellectual. From this comes philosophy, from
philosophy comes scientific talk.
So, you are in fact mistaking philosophy for intellect when you suggest that
intellect has been around for 3,000 years are you not? (The correct answer
is, 'Yes squonk! I see the error of my ways and i am most thankful for being
disabused of my mistake. Thank you.)
squonk
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