From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 25 2003 - 18:05:11 BST
Thanks Ian,
Thanks for bringing that group to my attention. They equate patterns to
predictions, I noticed. Do you their (the AI community, if there is such a
thing) defintion of intellegence would be useful to compare to MoQ's
Intellect, or Intellectual patterns? How would it relate to SOM? I noticed
they talk about Free Will in there too.
>This thread on Google's Comp.AI board may interest ....
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=FGZTTOADNQI%24Ewkz%40longley.demon.co.uk&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dcomp.ai.philosophyte - long split-lines - ensure you get the full URL)
>
>(Note - long split-lines - ensure you get the full URL)
>(Failing that, it's thread
>"So intelligence is the ability to find patterns"
>on google groups comp.ai.philosophy
>
>Ian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
>[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of skutvik@online.no
>Sent: 25 July 2003 08:50
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: MD What does Pi.... mean by *static intellectual patterns*?
>
>
>Dear Pi ...rsig ;-)?
>13 July you wrote:
>
> > I would like to apologize if this post sounds like 'preaching' and you
> > don't like to be preached to. This post certianly does not apply to
> > everyone in the forum. But if it does, treat it like a friendly
> > advice. :)
>
>This quiet period gave me a chance to read some of the recent posts
>more thoroughly and this from your was worth dwelling on."Preaching"
>is what we have too little of ;-) . At least your gentle kind.
>
> > I have been reading the posts for a short while now but have noticed
> > that a large number of people have trouble understanding what Pirsig
> > meant by 'static intellectual patterns of quality'. And honestly, it
> > is hard. Pirsig did not spend too much time explaining what he meant
> > by it. I personally took about 2 years to completely draw a boundary
> > around this thing called the intellectual pattern. Part of the whole
> > problem of intellectualizing intellectual patterns is that when you
> > try to draw a line around it, you have to draw a line around the line
> > drawing process!
>
>I could not agree more about the trouble with understanding the
>intellectual level (Q-intellect I call it). The MOQ hinges on it.
>
> > A general word of advice. If you find yourself troubled with the
> > various ideas presented by Pirsig and you know that you don't
> > completely understand his divisions of static quality, persue
> > them. Pirsig's purpose was not to mess up your understanding of the
> > world. It was to clean it up and bring peace.
>
>Hear, hear!!!
>
> > I don't even know if
> > Pirsig even had a purpose, but I certainly felt very peaceful after I
> > understood what intellectual patterns are.
>
>I think those who search, search for recognition of what we vaguely
>feel blocks our way. It may be vague to the extreme, but one
>immediately recognizes it when someone points to it, even in different
>words, and if that person not only affirms the blockage but points to a
>path ahead it's bliss.
>
> > That was the last piece of
> > the puzzle for me. And it was a very important piece. After I got some
> > idae of what it was, I re-read LILA just to absorb anything I
> > previously missed.
>
>I would have loved to hear your story here, but to speak about my own
>blockage it was (what Pirsig identified as) SOM which only left one
>with two alternatives: Give up reason and become a believer in
>something, or stay a sceptic to everything. P. had met the same S/O
>wall, but seen the Q solution, in ZAMM it was all very vague, but
>intensely promising.
>
> > I hope sharing my experience helps you relate in some way. For those
> > of you who are troubled by this philosophy, hang in there. That
> > unsettling feeling is what one feels when those static patterns are
> > broken. And that is a *good* thing. =)
>
>I had hoped for more, is it coming or been presented before? To
>return to my own experience, LILA was also a great revelation. The
>said Quality solution (as I perceived it) was that of seeing the S/O
>reality as a mere static level - intellect - in a series. The whole damned
>mind/matter vertical mountain reduced to a mere rise in the Quality
>terrain.
>
>NB!
> I did not see this SOM=Intellect connection that quickly, but it was
>there from the start and grew on me until aired it in the Lila Squad. It
>has since stabilized as deep conviction.
>
>As said I had hoped for a more detailed account of your reaction
>confronted with Pirsig's works and about the intellectual level in
>particular.
>
>Sincerely
>Bo
>
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archives:
>Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
>
>MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
>Mail Archives:
>Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
>Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
>MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
>To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
>http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Jul 25 2003 - 18:06:02 BST