From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Sep 20 2003 - 22:25:51 BST
Hello Steve, Bo and all:
Steve said to Bo:
You continue to try to woo DMB toward your S/O level idea because of
what you see as his defense of the social level which is surprising since
for DMB, to say someone is on the social level is an insult. I don't see
myself as an attacker of the social level and I don't see DMB as the social
level's defender. (To me the phrase "on the social level" makes little
sense because I think about the levels as types of patterns of value. I
translate it as "this person or forest of static patterns is dominated by
social values.")
dmb says:
I still don't get it. What's the difference in meaning. When I say that this
or that type of value pattern is "on the social level" it is only meant to
place it within Pirsig's hierarchy. So what's the problem. Of course we are
talking about types of patterns. That's what the hierarchy is all about,
classifying values. What else could it possibly mean? Intellectual values
are on the intellectual level. Social values are on the social level.
Nothing could be more simple.
DMB had said:
..., If I had to come up with a pithy little definition of intellect I'd say
its "thinking about thinking".)
Steve replied:
DMB first presented "thinking about thinking" as a definition of philosophy,
and I think it's the best one I've heard. However, I find it far too narrow
to define intellect. DMB, the fact that you limit intellect to "thinking
about thinking" explains why we differ so much about categorizing
intellectual patterns of value. I'm glad to finally have your definition of
intellect, DMB, rather than examples of intellectuals.
dmb says:
Far too narrow? Maybe I should have emphasized the "pithy little" aspect of
the statement. In any case, the fact that I like to use examples from the
world we all experience does nothing to alter this idea, it only makes the
idea relevant to actual experience. Again, I don't see the problem. Do
intellectuals serve as an example of what intellectual values look like in
real life? Of course they do. Duh! Pirsig sites many such examples in Lila.
So what's the problem?
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