From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Oct 01 2003 - 18:28:21 BST
Hi Scott
I think there is someting interesting
to look at round this issue. I think that
all human experience has a front edge
and it is from this that we start to look
at the concept of time. I think Bergson
has done some interesting stuff on this,
not got it to hand though. If I am seeing
a woman in a room, it may be the first time
I have ever seen this woman before, I
might have to handle a whole new kind of
situation, or, more often, there is a context,
the woman is a doctor and we both accept
a certain social pattern of baehaviour in this
situation. However, the dynamic possibility
is always there potentially, maybe I will not
relate to this inique situation in a patterned way,
authenticity as Heidegger calls it, this is because
any situation is unique in some way it would seem to me.
The patterns always simplify and categorise the situation
as something that is the same and can be responded to in
a patterned way. You go for an interview and you really
are expected to 'play the game' as socially understood
or you can forget it. What is not a repetition is dynamic
surely, although it may just take a contingent form and not
create anything that in turn becomes patterned. Why
do somethings become patterned and others are merely
contingent?
Regards
David Morey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R" <jse885@spinn.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: MD Dealing with S/O
> Dan,
>
> > From the narrow viewpoint of SOM, yes. But I think the MOQ offers a
more
> > expansive viewpoint. Of course intellect is subjective but it is not
> > subjectivity itself. For example, in Robert Pirsig's hot stove
experiment,
> > he says the mystic will tend to jump off the stove faster than the
> > intellectual. Intellectual patterns of value tend to take us farther
away
> > from reality instead of bringing us closer.
>
> I questioned this interpretation in a recent post to Platt, to which no
one
> has replied. Here it is again (I've added another bit at the end):
>
> "When the person who sits on the stove first discovers his low-Quality
> situation, the front edge of his experience is Dynamic. He does not think,
> "This stove is hot", and then make a rational decision to get off. A "dim
> perception of he knows not what" gets him off Dynamically. Later he
> generates static patterns of thought to explain the situation." [Lila, ch.
> 9]
>
> Pirsig seems to be ignoring his own warning about confusing the MOQ
meaning
> of
> "dynamic" and "static" with the way the words are used in physics. There
is
> nothing Dynamic, in the MOQ sense, in jumping off the stove. Instead, it
is
> the body following the static biological pattern, called a reflex. In
fact,
> the only way the Dynamic could come into play in this situation is if
> someone highly disciplined in mindfulness is so focused on the here and
now
> that he could block the reflex and stay on the stove. So (in the next
> paragraph) where Pirsig guesses that the mystic will get off sooner than
the
> subject-object scientist, I think he has it backwards. In practice, of
> course, they will get off at the same time, since they will both obey the
> reflex, but it is the mystic who has the possibility of choosing to get
off.
>
> [Added now]. One might object that I am ignoring the business of the
"front
> edge of his experience", but why should I postulate that there is such a
> "front edge"? All this example shows is that a biological reaction happens
> more quickly than thought.
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
>
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