From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Oct 21 2003 - 21:13:06 BST
Hi
Real nice quotes from Lila and Bohm.
Oh how I long for beauty, the good, togetherness/unity
in this sordid little life. I hear Nietzsche's thoughts on
decadence ringing in my ears every day. Let's paint the B52s
pink and drop flowers. Oh no too much whiskey again!
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: MD Truth
Hi Mark
Mark:
Truth is closely connected, perhaps inseparable from reason and
rationality.
Paul:
I think static truth [that is high quality intellectual patterns] is, as
you suggest, mostly recognised in what we have come to call reason and
rationality. You referred to conventional truth in a previous post, and
I think that equates to static truth - along the lines of the pragmatist
understanding of "what works in the way of belief," where "what works"
is a kind of quality. For many there is another "truth" of course, which
is recognised without intellectual imposition. You called it "ultimate
truth" in a previous post and in a way I think you are right, but I
think it is easy to confuse the conventional meaning of truth as
something fixed and attainable with what you mean by "ultimate truth,"
which I think has to be continually rediscovered.
Mark:
This being the case, would it be helpful to view truth as an instrument?
Truth is valuable as a methodology; there appear to be a great number of
rational methodologies from which to choose.
Paul:
As you have previously stated, the conception of "reason" and
"rationality" seems to have stemmed from an apprehension of ratio. Ratio
[any connection to rta?] is found in relationships, it is how things fit
together. More than that, it is a preference for a particular way of
fitting things together. Truth then may be seen, to some degree, as a
measure of how well things [observations, hypotheses, solutions etc.]
are fitted together. It is, at some stage in a methodology, a value
judgement.
This reminded me of something David Bohm talked about; I dug out this
quote from "On Creativity":
"In this art of life as a whole we have to be both creative artists and
skilled artisans. We are thus always in the act of fitting an
ever-changing reality so that there is no fixed or final goal to be
attained. Rather, at each moment the end and the means are both to be
described as the action of making every aspect fit.
This notion of fitting extends into all aspects of life, including even
those which have been called "moral" or "ethical" and which have to do
with "the good". The word "good" is indeed derived from an Anglo-Saxon
root (the same as that of "gather" and "together") which means "to
join." And so it may be suggested that early notions of "the good"
implied some kind of "fitting together" in all that man does. The fact
that the Latin word "bene", meaning "good", and the word "bellus",
meaning "beauty", are related in origin further confirms the suggestion
that this is generally how people may have looked on such questions.
Recalling that beauty means "to fit in every respect", we could say that
such a significance of "the good" is still relevant today. In other
words, the good is that which fits, not only in practical function and
in our feelings and aesthetic sensibilities, but also that which, by its
action, leads to an ever wider and deeper sort of fitting, in every
phase of life, both for the individual and for society as a whole." [On
Creativity p.87]
Which also reminds me of...
"The world comes to us in an endless stream of puzzle pieces that we
would like to think all fit together somehow, but that in fact never do.
There are always some pieces like platypi that don't fit and we can
either ignore these pieces or we can give them silly explanations or we
can take the whole puzzle apart and try other ways of assembling it that
will include more of them. When one takes the whole ill-shaped,
misfitting structure of a subject-object explained universe apart and
puts it back together in a value-centred metaphysics, all kinds of
orphaned puzzle pieces fit beautifully that never fit before." [Lila
p.117]
Mark:
Does this indicate that reason is value driven?
Paul:
Indeed, it indicates that reason is part of the same process that drives
all activity, which according to the MOQ, is value.
Cheers
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thank you. I think there may be a connection between Ratio and rta. I must look into that.
From what you say here, it appears that any rational enquiry is in fact a pattern of discovery in response to DQ. Our intermediate value preferences cannot be predicted, yet are confirmed by their aesthetic harmony as part of a larger pattern or fitting together, as with the artist and the artisan mentioned by Bohm.
Does this indicate that the term 'inventor' is misleading? Surely an inventor is one who lets go of static patterning and opens up to Dynamic intervention. Thus, a fine line must be walked between filling your experience full of static patterns and allowing yourself to float between them.
I watched an interview with Michael Caine the other night who told a story of advice he heard given in a lecture to a business school. The lecturer responded to a questioner seeking advice for business students by telling him to drop out!
Mark
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