From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Oct 26 2003 - 19:15:23 GMT
Matt
I take the Rorty-reader to say that the two cultures have different
values and that you cannot say one is superior to the other. They
have different language games and live in different worlds. I have
heard Rorty take a position of 'no way to judge' in respect of
so-called primitive cultures. And that the culture matches the form of life,
and our culture would be out of context in such a form of life and so
meaningless. Certainly Rorty talks about reality as being
culture-agent-dependent,
and consequently reason is too. Rorty says yes stand up for your values, but
he
is pretty explicit about their contingent nature, and hence the ironist
possibility
must always be held in mind that they can be re-valued. Hey Matt, Rorty is
more
radical than you think! Of course, I wish to push the Rorty view to the
place
where it it has nothing to say, and where I think the Pirsig view is more
useful, and
I thought you were happy with this, you Rorty guys are meant to prefer
silence
and avoid valuing one binary pole over another. I hope your problem with
what I
say might turn into a problem with Rorty. Although, as I say the approaches
to rationalist
stuff like truth seem very close, i.e. truth that is objective and detached
and everyone can
agree on, is SOM truth, value neutral, boring, and about little more tha the
quantitive side
of human experience. Value-driven engaged truth can't be objective, hence my
problem with
Platt, but surely we want value and project driven truth, where we have
something to live for.
Objective truth, as we know, is the view from nowhere, and where is that?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT" <mpkundert@students.wisc.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: MD What makes an idea dangerous?
> David,
>
> David said:
> The Rorty reading philosopher may argue with the European that his
assumptions are not valid, his self-certainty can be undermined by
questioning the metaphysics that underlie his certainty, and the faith that
is interwoven with his social up-bringing. There is no position from where
to judge between the African and the European as to who is closer to the
truth, hence the idea of truth has little use. We can say well done Mr Rorty
reading philosopher in attempting to stop the European destroying the
African culture, although the impact of the European is unstoppable as soon
as he steps on shore (not sure -but a sure thing -good joke there Freud),
but perhaps the violence can be avoided.
>
> Matt:
> I'm not so sure I agree with this interpretation of Rorty. The language
you use is dangerously close to misleading, but I know what you mean when
you say, "his self-certainty can be undermined by questioning the
metaphysics that underlie his certainty". But, all this means is that
"there is no position from where to judge ... as to who is closer to the
truth." I get the feeling you almost want to say that the Rorty reading
philosopher won't _judge_ the African culture, and that the Pirsigian will.
But this isn't quite right. Rorty would feel fine about judging the
culture, we should feel fine in judging the culture. Ours is better. Does
that mean we should destroy the African culture? Well, maybe, but certainly
not with violence. Only with conversation (as long as they remain within
the bounds of conversation). What the Rortyan would do is try to convince
the African culture that some of his practices are inferior to ours (like
leaving babies to die in bushes). An
> d, with luck, along the way of this conversation, the Rortyan will pick up
a few tid-bits to improve his own culture, practices that could use
improvement.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
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