From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed Oct 29 2003 - 10:29:08 GMT
Hi Matt
Paul said:
Is it ever possible, as a Rortyan pragmatist, to say about an
interpretation of an author's thoughts that "This isn't quite right..."?
Matt replied:
I think so. Depends on what the standards are. Like I said before, if
there are established reference points then you can weed out certain
things that are obviously wrong. My reference points were Rorty's
writings and I can quote him.
Paul:
Fair enough. What qualifies as an "established reference point"? Is it
the same thing as a "fact"? If we disagree about the meaning of a piece
of writing [as you and David M do], is the writing still an established
reference point?
Matt:
And I'm not trying to establish Rorty's essence, just what he thinks
about judging different cultures. If on this point he displays a
stunning display of complexity and seeming contradiction, then perhaps
interpretation of him would be a bit more up for grabs.
Paul:
I thought that, as "authentic readings are pointless," that all reading
is interpretation, and as such, is always up for grabs. It appears that,
actually, authentic readings are possible, depending on the
scope/purpose of the reading and on the simplicity and consistency of
the writing.
Matt:
If it is shown to me that he has complex views on this or that, I would
be more than happy to forward one interpretation over the others as a
better one, though perhaps not an "essence".
Paul:
It has been shown to me that Rorty's writing is complex enough for you
and David to have read different things out of it.
Matt:
For instance, getting caught up in Rorty's self-referencing as an
"atheist" and a "physicalist," I think, misses the spirit that his
pragmatism entails. Just as Rorty is more than happy to capture the
spirit of Dewey's letter, I am more than happy to make my play for the
spirit of Rorty's.
Paul:
So it is possible to have a piece of writing admit of a "spirit" but not
of an "essence." What do you see as the difference?
Paul said:
And if intersubjective agreement is the pragmatist measure of "right,"
doesn't "right" equally belong to the "many [who] have interpreted Rorty
as saying this" as to those, like yourself, who haven't?
Matt:
No, right doesn't belong equally to anybody. Otherwise, there wouldn't
be a difference between right and wrong.
Paul:
My objection precisely. Does this mean that e.g. there is such a thing
as a wrong [and by virtue of that, a right] reading of Pirsig?
Furthermore, if you can be right or wrong about something, what decides?
Matt:
What happens, though, is that I am trying to persuade people that I'm
right and these others are wrong.
Paul:
That sounds more like the pragmatist stance I have been hearing. In
accord with the statement above, I would have guessed that a pragmatist
would say that "right" is only ever a compliment one pays one's own
understanding or interpretation.
However, it looks like there is a real difference between "thinking you
are right" and "being right," a difference I had thought pragmatists had
denied.
It looks like I was wrong, when I thought I was right :-)
Something else about pragmatism has troubled me.
Pragmatists don't make assumptions about "Reality." [Big R, meaning, as
per Matt to Steve 13/10/03: Remember, pragmatists don't make assumptions
about the way the world really is]
Pragmatists reject an appearance/reality distinction.
Pragmatists point out that all logical reasoning begins with
assumptions.
When a pragmatist reasons logically, what does he/she make his/her
assumptions about?
If it is not about Reality does that not mean that, as Reality is
nevertheless being acknowledged, assumptions are being made about
something "other" than Reality? Is this something "other" not then
appearance [or similar term]?
As you've probably been through all of this before, Matt, I'm sorry to
be a pain!
Cheers
Paul
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