From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Nov 02 2003 - 14:16:13 GMT
Matt:
I'm not sure why pragmatists would countenance a "description/experience"
distinction. To me it sounds like you are trying to pull our descriptions
off of our experiences, unless you are simply distinguishing between the
world we are causally in touch with and our knowledge of the world.
David M: Generally no, but one possible yes. Obviously we have all kinds of
experience that we
do not want to sit around describing to each other, a very simple
distinction between describing and experiencing,
but obviously I am with Rorty that it is interpretation all the way down, so
that what we experience is made possible by all kinds of social, language
en-framing. There may be one sort of yes, where we experience something
pure, pure quality
you might call it, but, of course, this is something mystic that you cannot
say anything about, because to name its qualities
is to distinguish it from something else, and there is no something else
without differance (per Derrida's scheme for meaning).
Still not happy with this causality notion, Nietzsche gives it the good
whipping it deserves, you say push us around,
exactly as Nietzsche says you are confusing bodily feelings and projecting
them onto the interaction/patterns that things/objects
demonstrate, and of course, Nietzsche gives the idea of things a good
whipping too, you are projecting your own illusion
of persistence/duration onto the world. We would be better talking about
dynamic quanta and mere repetition he suggests,
sound familiar?
regards
David M
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT" <mpkundert@students.wisc.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: MD When is an interpretation not an interpretation?
> Hey Paul, David,
>
> Paul said:
> Does this create a reality/Reality distinction?
>
> Matt:
> Sure, but this distinction is between two kinds of books with Plato to
Kant to Husserl and Russell on one side and Protagoras to Hume to Nietzsche
and James on the other.
>
> Paul said:
> Does this create a description/reality distinction or is "a description,"
for all intents and purposes, what pragmatists mean by reality? If so, does
it follow that describing produces reality?
>
> Matt:
> No, there is no description/reality distinction because pragmatists don't
think we can pull off our descriptions of reality and look at reality bare
and naked. But neither is "a description" what we mean by "reality". That
would be idealism. Pragmatists agree with realists that there is a world
"out there," we just think that it affects us causally. We don't represent
it, it just pushes us around. Realists would claim that pragmatists are the
same as idealists and that we are both saying that we are, in essence, blind
to reality. This is only what idealists like Kantians are saying.
Pragmatists repudiate the idea of representations and the metaphor of sight.
We are neither clear-sighted or blind. Sight is a bad way of framing
things.
>
> David said:
> If you are going to say anything it is a description. Quite happy to talk
about a description/experience distinction.
>
> Matt:
> I'm not sure why pragmatists would countenance a "description/experience"
distinction. To me it sounds like you are trying to pull our descriptions
off of our experiences, unless you are simply distinguishing between the
world we are causally in touch with and our knowledge of the world.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
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