Re: MD Self-consciousness

From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Nov 06 2003 - 16:59:52 GMT

  • Next message: David MOREY: "Re: MD Self-consciousness"

    Hi

    I think if you read Robert M Young's Reflexive Universe
    in conjunction with Prigogine's The End Of Reason you
    will can see that it would be very useful to introduce levels
    below that exhibited at the macro level. I believe this is the case
    because you have to explain how you go from DQ in the context
    of nothing to the full determinism of the macro level. Young invents
    a very interesting cosmology that starts from a level that is more
    free that the macro level to which it descends, the explanation for life
    is then that once the sacrifice of DQ has reached a very fixed level
    of SQ it has to turn and move in the opposite direction so that the
    move from the macro level to plants to animals to man is one of
    increasing freedom/DQ. I strongly recommend Young's book as a way
    of expanding the levels below the inorganic and offering a good way to
    understand how the inorganic and organic are linked and yet different.
    Not easy to find a copy though.

    regards
    David M
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Paul Turner" < >
    To: < >
    Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:49 PM
    Subject: RE: MD Self-consciousness

    > Hi David
    >
    > David:
    > Seems important to realise that quantum probabilities associated with
    > quantum fields is not an aspect of SQ. The absence of pattern &
    > repetition is surely an aspect of DQ.
    >
    > Paul:
    > There is some discussion about this in Lila's Child; your particular
    > point is made by Bo on page 4...
    >
    > "The quantum level below the static inorganic level displays no
    > patterns, is principally uncertain, and as such, is Dynamic."
    >
    > To which Pirsig's response was...
    >
    > "The quantum level displays precise mathematical patterns, and as such
    > has to be primarily static." [Lila's Child p.32]
    >
    > On whether or not quantum reality should be considered as a level below
    > the inorganic level, Pirsig states "I've never had strong objections to
    > this. My reason for not doing so was that the quantum level is
    > inorganic, and the addition of another level adds complexity to an
    > already difficult book without strengthening the basic thesis." [Lila's
    > Child p.32]
    >
    > David:
    > I see the move from energy to structure and materiality as a withdrawal
    > of DQ until you get SQ type material bondage.
    >
    > Paul:
    > I'm no expert on quantum mechanics, but (my understanding of) what
    > Pirsig is referring to as Dynamic Quality is nothing that physicists are
    > able to model mathematically, including energy.
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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