From: Nathan Pila (pila@sympatico.ca)
Date: Sun Nov 09 2003 - 22:05:49 GMT
Steve,
This part that you quote, '"``Laws of nature are human inventions, like
ghosts. Laws of logic, of
mathematics are also ...." is one of my favourite passages in ZMM.
I like the feeling I got and still get, when I read that.
Thanks for reminding me.
Nathan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Peterson" <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: MD string theory
> Hi Nathan, GJ, Johnny,
>
> Nathan said
> > Hmm, So, if there is no one in the forest, then the tree makes no sound
as
> > it falls, right?
> >
>
> Steve quotes:
> Pirsig in Note #180 of Lila's Child said in relation to that question:
> "This is the usual argument against the philosophic idealism that is part
> of the MOQ so it had better be answered here. It is similar to the
> question, 'If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does in make
a
> sound?' The historic answer of the idealists is, 'What tree?' In order to
> ask this question you have to presuppose the existence of the falling
> tree and then ask whether this presupposed tree would vanish if nobody
> was there. Of course it wouldn't vanish. It has already been
> presupposed. This presupposition is a standard logical fallacy known as
> a hypothesis contrary to fact. It is the 'hypothetical question' that is
> always thrown out of court as inadmissible. If pigs could fly, how high
> would they go. The answer is the same as the answer to Dave's
> question."
>
> I think Matt would say 'Does anything exist prior to observation?' begs
the
> question. It is ruled inadmissible by an empiricist because it
presupposes
> a reality outside experience.
>
>
> > Did you happen to catch the latest NOVA on PBS? It was about the book
called
> > The Elegant Universe. The book discusses 'string theory'. String theory
> > postulates that all matter and all radiation (photons, heat etc) is
composed
> > of vibrating strings of energy. That, these strings, are the ultimate
> > reality; the strings vibrate in 11 dimensions. Since we can't imagine 11
> > dimensions, is it fair to say that only 4 dimensions exist and the
strings
> > are unreal?
>
> This reminds me of one of my favorite parts of ZAMM--the part about ghosts
> (quoted in part below). In 'string theory' we have the scientist's search
> for ultimate reality. ("Why is the reality most acceptable to science is
> one that no small child can be expected to understand?" Lila, p 103
quoting
> Poincare.) Scientists have long ago forgotten that molecules, atoms, and
> quarks exist only in the mind. These concepts are aesthetic creations of
> the intellect invented to explain and predict experience, as is the idea
> that these things are not human inventions.
>
> ZAMM on ghosts:
> "``Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
> mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed
thing
> is a human invention, including the idea that it isn't a human invention.
> The world has no existence whatsoever outside the human imagination. It's
> all a ghost, and in antiquity was so recognized as a ghost, the whole
> blessed world we live in."
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
>
>
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