Re: MD ZMM was alright

From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Sun Nov 09 2003 - 14:04:04 GMT

  • Next message: David MOREY: "Re: MD Two theories of truth"

    Hi Nathan,
     
    > There is a school of thought that says that consciousness is an emergent
    > property in the same way wetness is an emergent property. The atoms that
    > form a molecule of water are not wet nor is the molecule of water wet, but
    > put enough of these water molecules together and you get wetness. In that
    > way, consciousness 'comes from' the maelstrom of activity from various parts
    > of the brain.

    (There is a discussion going on between Scott and Platt and perhaps some
    others about self-consciousness which I haven't really been following.
    Perhaps it would be worth reading back in the archives.)

    My thoughts on the subject are half-baked, but I'll give you my two-sense as
    I think out loud.

    I think of consciousness and awareness as the same thing. To me
    self-consciousness is a type of awareness. I don't think there is a great
    mystery to be explained once you make accept Pirsig's postulate that reality
    is value. I think that awareness is another way of thinking about Quality.
    You asked for synonyms for Quality other than "expectation" (which I don't
    like). Well, I consider both 'awareness' and 'experience' to be useful in
    this way.

    When I say 'everything is Quality' I'm saying that everything is awareness
    and everything is aware. As for awareness as an emergent property, I think
    that awareness is fundamental to existence and emergent as "awarenesses"
    conceived as molecules combine to form a new awareness, an organism that is
    aware of (in other words, experiences value)-- things like hunger or a sex
    drive that molecules are not aware of but also isn't aware of the forces
    (value experiences) that effect molecules.

    As for the 'maelstrom of activity from various parts of the brain' I think
    it's important to consider that though thoughts and emotions have physical
    correlates that can be measured and studied scientifically, the measurements
    are not to be *equated* with the thoughts and emotions. Though scientists
    may release a new finding that they've located a chemical or part of the
    brain associated with feelings of empathy, it doesn't mean that empathy does
    not exist. Scientists will never find a thought while dissecting a brain.
    Thoughts are the experience of being a brain which can't be known from
    outside a brain.

    That's my 2 x 10^-2 cents on the subject, anyway. As I said, I haven't
    thought it out to my satisfaction. Pirsig didn't write much about
    consciousness, but if awareness=Quality perhaps not much needs to be said.

    Thanks for asking,
    Steve

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries -

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Nov 09 2003 - 14:05:53 GMT