From: Gert-Jan Peeters (gjpeeters@home.nl)
Date: Tue Nov 11 2003 - 19:41:34 GMT
[taken out of context]
Richard said on 11 nov in reply to nathan:
The MOQ would grant that your view as an intellectual pattern has high
quality, as is the idea that your brain is responsible for your awareness.
The idealism of the MOQ would remind us that this is just a theory, and that
the idea that awareness (Dynamic Quality) comes first, ideas come next, and
brains get created in there wake is also possible.
GJ adds on 11 nov:
Nathan, In ZMM Pirsig concludes that experience is quality. Quality can be
divided into subjects and objects. We try to put quality into subjects and
into objects. A beautiful painting is beautiful because of the painting? or
is it just me? We would all want to marry the same wife. If we go to far
with this, we also try to put reality (=quality) into subjects or objects.
In the end we get tight up because we have two theories of reality who are
directly the opposites of each other, but show us the same reality.
Materialism being the one who says that reality is piled up material and
that our consciousness is a product of our brain. And in the other corner we
see Idealism who says everything is a product of our imagination. (I believe
it was in the book "lila's child" where I read that an idealist who tries to
convince someone else of his theory, doesn't believe in the theorie
himself.)
Well, to end this ongoing battle one could state that the materialst has an
objective approach toward quality, and that the idealst has an subjective
approach toward quality/reality. So, now you have three different ways to
look at reality. The first two are the Subjective and Objective approach and
the third is the Quality approach. The former is called Subject Object
Metaphysica and if you show signs of being a SOM thinker we kill you. We
take out our SPoVs and DQs and beat you around in such way you wished you
never read any of those books in the first place. Back into the abyss with
Thee... :-)
Annyway, I lost track of the real question that unleashed this painfull
rubbish above..
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