Re: MD what is life?

From: August West (augustwestd@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Nov 17 2003 - 19:56:24 GMT

  • Next message: Nathan Pila: "Re: MD Dead is dead ?"

    Nathan... All,

    life is existance.

    -August

    --- Nathan Pila <pila@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > Hi there Steve,
    >
    > Well, I would assert that the study of "life" is
    > worthwhile even if it is an
    > illusion. Right now, a definition that is accepted
    > by everyone has yet to be
    > formulated. How can one tell if some material is
    > "alive". What properties
    > would such material exhibit?
    >
    > How would you, (Steve)/ (or anyone else) /define
    > 'life'? I am aware that I
    > am not being fair here in that this question is easy
    > to state and terribly
    > difficult to answer. But if you have the time, I
    > would be interested in some
    > of the properties that you think 'life' has. I have
    > some views on the
    > subject based on some stuff I've read. But I would
    > like to hear what you
    > write first.
    >
    > Regards, Nathan
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Steve Peterson" <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 5:02 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD out of our depth
    >
    >
    > > Hi Nathan,
    > >
    > > > The human mind ...
    > >
    > > I'll read "brain." You might consider a
    > software/hardware sort of
    > > distinction.
    > >
    > > >...did not develop as a organ to solve
    > philosophical problems.
    > >
    > > Agree.
    > >
    > > > Rather, it evolved for a very different purpose.
    > In that it is like the
    > heart,
    > > > lungs, or kidneys; that is, the brain has a
    > specific job to fill namely
    > to
    > > > simply enhance the reproductive success of the
    > body within which it
    > resides.
    > >
    > > I agree. The brain is a biological organ that
    > evolved to fulfill
    > biological
    > > needs.
    > >
    > > > This is the biological purpose of every mind,
    > human as well as animal,
    > and
    > > > moreover, it is its only purpose.
    > >
    > > (I'm still reading "brain" rather than "mind") I
    > don't know how you
    > > conclude that "it is its only purpose." Modern
    > homo sapiens brains now
    > also
    > > serve social and intellectual purposes.
    > >
    > > Why not take a broader view of evolution? A
    > brief history of the
    > world....
    > > Life evolved out of an inorganic physical setting
    > which seeks stability
    > and
    > > balance and went off to serve its own purpose of
    > preserving itself in what
    > > can be seen as a sort of defiance of physical laws
    > as, for example,
    > animals
    > > move about and even fly rather than simply
    > succumbing to the pull of
    > > gravity. Humans eventually created societies
    > which helped to preserve
    > life
    > > and fulfill biological needs, but these societies
    > have also found their
    > own
    > > purposes and continue to seek them in defiance of
    > the law of the jungle.
    > > Out of established societies intellect evolved
    > which at first had the
    > > purpose of preserving society and making life
    > physically easier, but
    > > intellect too has found its own purposes in
    > creating philosophy and
    > > literature and art.
    > >
    > > Each stage of evolution evolved to serve the
    > purposes of lower stages but
    > > has gone on to serve itself. Each level is a
    > moral code: the laws of
    > > physics, the law of the jungle, the morality of
    > society, and the rules of
    > > rational thought. The value that holds an idea
    > together is qualitatively
    > > different than the value that holds society
    > together which is different
    > from
    > > the value that preserves life which is different
    > from the value that holds
    > > physical materials together.
    > >
    > > Now I'm getting into the heart of Lila which I'd
    > rather not do. It would
    > be
    > > better for you to read it than to for me to try to
    > summarize. But I want
    > > to say that reducing intellectual and social
    > experiences to biological
    > ones
    > > as you are trying to do is as absurd as trying to
    > explain biological
    > > experiences with the laws of physics. If society
    > and intellect like
    > > consciousness are merely emergent properties (like
    > wetness as you say),
    > > isn't life also merely an emergent property that
    > then doesn't really
    > exist?
    > > Are biologists also just deluded into thinking
    > that there is something to
    > > study?
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > > Mail Archives:
    > > Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    > http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > > Nov '02 Onward -
    >
    http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the
    > instructions at:
    > > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 -
    > http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    >
    http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the
    > instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >

    __________________________________
    Do you Yahoo!?
    Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
    http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Nov 17 2003 - 19:57:11 GMT