From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Nov 18 2003 - 21:10:30 GMT
Scott,
> > > Sense-perceptible particulars are the objects and events we see,
> > > hear, touch, smell, and taste. By "see" (to refer to your later
> > > post) I mean physical sight, not insight or understanding.
> >
> > The MOQ adds "value" to the physical senses [Scott] lists. Value is
> > our sixth sense.
>
> Does he ever actually call it a sense? All I recall is that he says it
> is "verifiable", a source of knowledge.
From Pirsig's SODV paper:
"In the third box are the biological patterns: senses of touch, sight
hearing, smell and taste. The Metaphysics of Quality follows the
empirical tradition here in saying that the senses are the starting
point of reality, but -- all importantly -- it includes a sense of
value. Values are phenomena. To ignore them is to misread the world."
> In any case, one cannot
> demonstrate truth of value judgments by correspondence. That is, if I
> say X is better than Y, and you say Y is better than X, then there is
> nothing further that either of us can physically point to to determine
> who is right (we may be able to make non-sense-perceptible
> justifications, but those are not done through correspondence).
Agree. I see our sense of value as a catalyst for coming up with
premises which is a response to DQ ("Hey, I think I have a great
idea."), to be verified by the scientific demands of logical
consistency and correspondence to observation, i.e., experience.
Scott in a previous post:
If you're going to insist that "being rational" is all and only
Aristotelian logic, then there isn't much more to say. One cannot come
up
with the idea that Quality is prior to subject and object through
Aristotelian logic. That act is one of creating a hypothesis, while
Aristotelian logic only determines what one can deduce from a set of
assumptions. Therefore, according to you, Pirsig is irrational.
Platt
Agree that logic cannot create a hypothesis. But once you come up with
a hypothesis, an assumption or a premise (I suggest from a response to
DQ), then Aristotelian logic applies to make deductions which can then
be verified by the physical senses. This is how high quality
intellectual patterns are created other than those created by pure
mathematics. I don't how the "logic of contradictory identity" is of
any help in this process.
Pirsig with a leap of imagination in response to DQ came up with
hypothesis that Quality is reality. Then he set about creating a
metaphysics using Aristotelian logic and correspondence to experience
in order to verify the intellectual quality of his hypothesis.
My sense of value tells me the intellectual quality of the MOQ is very
high indeed. Your sense of value says otherwise.
Platt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Nov 18 2003 - 21:38:49 GMT