Re: MD The MOQ: An expansion of rationality

From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Jan 10 2004 - 21:19:21 GMT

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    Hi

    If only I could set lines if you did not do your home work.
    The reality of the individual Ego is something that has
    developed in what was once an animal to give us something
    that we now refer to as human. Being human is to possess an
    individuality that animals do not fully possess. How this development/
    evolution was achieved, I suggest has to go hand in hand with a sort
    of differentiation/separation/alienation/ of instinctual participatory
    being.
    The individual is a stance of separation. It says here I am and there
    opposed
    to me is the world, we are separate and not One. In this stance, in human
    being,
    begins a voyage that I suspect ends at SOM. The possibility then is to start
    putting things back together again and in the full light of intellect see
    that human
    being is utterly immersed in Being as a whole.

    NB The homework is optional, sounds interesting take a look, if I don't grab
    your interest ignore it, I appreciate that not everyone is attempting to
    drown
    in reading quite as much as I am. Neumann is a Jungian writer who in his
    book
    looks at myths to construct a story about how the ego emerges from the
    collective
    unconscious to give us the individuated being we call human.

    regards
    David M
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Steve Peterson" <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 7:41 PM
    Subject: Re: MD The MOQ: An expansion of rationality

    > Hi DM,
    >
    > > I am inclined to associate subjectivity with the
    > > achievement in nature of that pattern we call the ego.
    >
    > No comprendo.
    >
    > > The creation of the ego described by Neumann in his
    > > Origins and History Of Consciousness describes myths
    > > that seem to report on the creation of the ego and the
    > > emergence into the dawn of intellect.
    >
    > Tampoco. Es Ingles?
    >
    > >I think Bo concedes
    > > that once the realm of intellect emerges there have been
    > > a number of challenges to the exclusivity of dualistic thinking.
    >
    > Whether he does or not is beside the point. I've never made a case for
    > non-dualistic thinking which I view as an oxymoron. To think is to create
    > "this" and "that." Prior to thinking is the undifferentiated aesthetic
    > continuum.
    >
    > > I don't know what people think of Capra's version of this in
    > > his Turning Point book?
    >
    > I request less bibliography and more philosophy. Remember that the only
    > prereqs for this discussion are ZAMM and Lila. If Capra or Neumann, a
    > British mathematician, or Geoffrey Read or anyone else has anything
    > pertinent to say, I kindly ask that you would stop giving us homework ;-)
    > and explain as best you can while quoting as needed to best make your
    point.
    >
    > >What examples of non dualistic thinking
    > > do you have in mind? Of course there have always been poets
    > > etc trying to put things back together again.
    >
    > Again, I don't have anything to say about non-dualistic thinking.
    >
    > Bo claims that intellect is the S/O level. I agree that intellect relies
    on
    > making distinctions. But in Bo's MOQ, all of intellect relies on making
    > distinctions between subjective experience and objective experience. "All
    > of it. Every last bit of it. Madness there."
    >
    > We can think without making distinctions between what is true for you,
    what
    > is true for me, and what is true independent of perspective. That isn't
    > "simply thinking" as Pirsig defines intellect, that is thinking about
    > thinking of the SOM brand. Since all thinking isn't philosophical
    thinking,
    > then intellect cannot be limited to subjective/objective knowledge
    > distinctions.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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