From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Mon Apr 19 2004 - 04:36:26 BST
Hi Mark, also anyone who's ever been interested in my point of view,
'Hoom' is something that Treebeard says a lot, often when he's talking to
hasty hobbits.
Mark 19-4-04: Hi Sam, thanks. I've never read these books. I've never been
called a hasty hobbit before.
Two things from your last message. Firstly:
Mark 19-4-04: The 'firstly' may be a simple mistake? I have to say as the
result of this nitpicking. When i say the levels ARE patterns, i mean levels are
composed of patterns. But this should be very obvious from my Orchestra
simile. Perhaps i was too hasty in believing you would see that?
Second:
> Sam quotes Mark:
> > Mark 17-4-04: The term Character here is, in the analogy of the Symphony
> > Orchestra, Ensemble playing. It is not the Woodwind, String, Percussion
or Brass
> > section.
>
> No. That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that character (ie the
> eudaimonic pattern of value existing in a particular person) is equivalent
to a section of the
> orchestra.
>
> Mark 17-4-04 b: I know. But you are wrong in what you say.
Again, you just baldly state that I am wrong without giving any argumentative
support. What your
position boils down to is saying 'I know what the MoQ says and you don't'.
This is a very
destructive mode of discussion, because it is based upon a rejection of the
other person's voice in
the debate. There is no engagement with the ideas or points presented, there
is only an appeal to
the authority of the self.
Mark 17-4-04: The authority i appeal to are the texts written by Robert
Pirsig. You will find relevant textual support for my argument in TEOC which you
claim to have read?
There is no textual support for your views in Robert Pirsig's works.
Sam:
It seems to me that the only thing that can make discussions in MD fruitful
is a generosity of
spirit, to engage with the best that can be made of an argument, not with the
worst and, most of
all, to see this as a collaborative project trying to articulate - and, yes,
even to improve upon
the framework which Pirsig has bequeathed to us.
Mark 17-4-04: Value Metaphysics, Process Ontology? Stop evading.
My post on Christianity which seems to have launched this most recent tirade
can stand as a suitable
epitaph; it expresses quite pithily my current understanding of life the
universe and everything.
Mark 17-4-04: Oh i see. You are evading. Getting too close to the bone is it?
The butchers knife cutting a bit sharp is it?
I'll still be actively involved with MF; I very much want MF to succeed.
There are lots of things
that I'm still interested in relating to the MoQ, especially the question of
language, and the
understanding of emotions, but I think writing essays, and doing piecework
via the MF list is the
way to go.
"Thoughts reduced to paper are generally nothing more than the footprints of
a man walking in the
sand. It is true that we see the path he has taken; but to know what he saw
on the way, we must use
our own eyes." (Schopenhauer)
Sam
Mark 17-4-04: "I can tell you all i know, the where to go, the what to do.
You can try to run but you can't hide from what's inside of you." Steely Dan.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Apr 19 2004 - 04:39:45 BST