From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Tue Apr 20 2004 - 01:14:41 BST
On 14 April 2004 6:10 AM Mark writes in essay to Sam:
Mark:
So, when Sam glibly trots out, "it is the wise person that is most free and
in touch with Quality, not the intellectual" what is he saying?
Well, even by Aristotle's lights, both his wise men, the man of affairs and
the philosopher use intellect to do what they do. But here we have to bring
in Aristotle's notion of potential and actuality. Both men actuate their
potential intellects, but the man of affairs integrates his to living a full
man of affairs life, to the neglect of specialisation, (jack of all trades,
master of none)! while the philosopher fully actuates his intellect! Which
one is better? That is a debate that is going on and on. But the thing is,
the MoQ and my, The edge of chaos would agree with Sam and suggest that
Coherence is best. The problem is, Sam says the essence of autonomy is the
individual, whereas i would say it is Coherence of patterns in and across
levels. It is the intellectual patterns in tension with all other patterns
which generates Dynamic coherence which is then attributed to the
individual, and NOT the individual as a 'level' of the MoQ. The difference
is subtle, but absolutely important: Sam does not understand that what he is
saying is not a minor change to the MoQ, his changes are founded on a
complete misunderstanding of what the MoQ is saying.
Hi Mark, Sam, and all:
joe: i am excited about your description of an individual. I reread TEOC.
I mused that maybe everything is a vibration. Sound is known in note
relations (the octave). I wonder if note relations apply in other mediums?
If there are other mediums? Is harmony a way to see coherence?
Mark 19-4-04: Hi Joe, I don't know? A well respected physicist, who's name
escapes me at this moment, gave up a conventional career because he felt music
was so important to a theory of everything? I must remind myself of his name
and look his work up again. I shall get back to you on that, unless someone else
helps us out first?
Harmony and coherence?
An excellent question, in my view. All physics, theoretical and practical,
utilise mathematical modelling. The 'shape' of models display vibratory
structures, and it is very often a wonder to me 'what' medium these vibrations may be
said to inhere?
Of course, we are dealing with intellectual patterns here, and Intellectual
patterns emerge from the event stream - DQ, and are evolving towards DQ - that
is, patterns are in a coherent state. Coherence is high aesthetic - the more
beautiful the theory, the better it 'fits' experimental data - but the
aesthetic comes first. Always.
Joe:
I quote from you, Mark, I hope it is alright:
"Complexity theory is one of the most controversial areas of current
scientific research. Developing out of chaos theory, complexity suggests
that there are hidden tendencies in nature to select ordered states, even
when statistically they are vastly outnumbered by chaotic possibilities:
that there is a deep natural impulse towards order, counteracting the
degenerative tendencies of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Like chaos,
complexity is a multidisciplinary area of research and those involved
include physicists, economists and biologists. This is a study of
complexity.
Mark 17-4-04: Up to this point, the quote is a blurb for Stuart Kauffman
book, At Home in the Universe, published by Oxford University press. A good book!
Sweet spots may indicate that Quality is not merely a human invention. Sweet
spots are to be found everywhere and provide supporting evidence for the
cosmological evolution postulated in the MOQ. Examples of sweet spots in
nature may be readily seen in the phenomena of phase transitions. These
appear to be sweet spots where the freedom of possibility merges with the
security of the actual:
The deep natural impulse towards order' that complexity indicates may be
better restated as a balance between SQ patterns. The impulse is DQ and the
order is SQ." The Edge of Chaos by Mark Maxwell p 5.
joe: IMO there is something about self-awareness that is elusive. Can I
conclude that each level has tendencies which would look like awareness to
another level? Is self awareness, the awareness of one level experiencing
the changes in another level?
Mark 17-4-04: To restate your first question, may we say, 'Do the Inorganic,
Organic and Social levels display awareness - like tendencies to the
Intellectual level?
In that patterns of value display preferences it would appear that preference
is becoming more and more open to DQ as evolution progresses?
Paul Turner asked about this many months ago, and he got be thinking. Now
that you ask a similar question, i am thinking about it again, and a thought has
just popped into my head:
What is self? Self is coherent tension between patterns of value. (e.g. Rock,
Cat, Village, Symbolic repertoire).
What is awareness of 'other than' self? 'Other than self is tension between
coherences. (e.g. between Rock and the Earth, Cat and pride, Village and
Country, Symbolic repertoire and Encyclopaedia).
The important thing to note is these value differentials are preferences, and
may shift in and out of coherence. If coherence is the best state between
SQ-SQ tension, sharp divisions between differential coherence must themselves
seek higher coherence?
To answer your question, self awareness as coherence may be displayed as the
ability to move towards and maintain coherence. Thus, the Earth is roughly
spherical, Prides have a coherence providing pecking order, Villages have an
optimum size where Human social cohesion works best, ("Nice place!") and Theories
are beautiful displaying no contradictions.
This is all conjecture Joe.
Joe:
An individual sentient is four levels. I have a layered self-awareness. I
experience the awareness of action, if I am not asleep. Morality in a
sentient individual seems to require an awareness in each level. An
awareness united across different levels seems to be able to be
indiscriminate. Something blocks discrete awareness in immoral actions.
Patterns between different levels can find an immoral coherence. Perhaps I
am getting lost trying to picture it. Get the coherence right between dq
sq, before picturing coherence between sq sq on different levels.
Mark 17-4-04: You have a dim apprehension of what you are feeling yourself
towards? Keep going...
Mark:
"patterns in tension with other patterns which generates Dynamic coherence
which is then attributed to an individual, and NOT the individual as a
'level' of the MOQ"
joe: IMO the awareness of an individual can be more or less. When I
experience 'beauty' something changes my awareness. My awareness of the
cohesion is striking. When I create 'beauty' it seems something has changed
in me which expands beyond me. I accept something mechanically as a member
of an audience at a concert. I sing my own song and the coherence of
patterns finds a different place in me. Is there a difference between
accepted and created awareness. Is the accepted awareness of
Jack-of-all-trades, the same as the created awareness of the philosopher?
IMO the philosopher is more moral than the jack-of-all-trades.
Mark 17-4-04: Maybe the jack of all trades must be a good actor? How many
characters may an actor accommodate in his repertoire of characters in order to
make each one convincing and authentic? Not easy to be sure? "Is there a
difference between accepted and created awareness." Am i catching your drift?
The philosopher doesn't have to act? He/she doesn't have to?
Joe:
Why do I experience patterns in coherence as having a life of its own? Is
this a mystical experience? I anthropomorphize DQ and the levels are not
useful. DQ is not God. I can't anthropomorphize 'evolution'. IMO The
evolving sentient is one that is more in touch with the awareness of the
different levels?
Joe
Mark 17-4-04: Quality, Tao, pre-established Harmony. The Intellectual level
may not only be organised in accordance with pre-established harmony, but it
must evolve towards it?
joe: "IMO The evolving sentient is one that is more in touch with the
awareness of the
different levels?"
The different levels, as existing along the continuum of value evolution are
treading the same path? Intellect resonates with these earlier structures? Am
i catching your drift?
All the best,
Mark
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