From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jun 06 2004 - 15:48:29 BST
Hi J
There is surely some lower quality inorganic
pattern (gravity/matter ) defeating a higher quality organic
pattern (my cat) when a tree fell on him and made him flat.
If only some higher level conscious intervention
had cut down the rotting tree!
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: MD Patterns (and consciousness)
> Leland wrote:
> >The value of the table can increase after the axe falls if you're caught
in
> >a blizzard with no source of heat other than fire, and you've run out of
> >firewood. All of a sudden, the table stops being valuable as "something
to
> >set your stuff on" and becomes valuable as a way to keep from freezing to
> >death.
>
> Right, if we expect it to burn and keep us warm.
>
> >We keep talking about the "patterns of the table" when we should be
talking
> >about the "patterns of value that the table embodies".
>
> I don't see a difference. All patterns are patterns of value, the value
> being that patterns can be expected to continue. If there is no
expectation
> of a pattern continuing, there is no more pattern and no value.
>
> >Time, as such, is nothing but a valuable convention (like mathematics).
> >Time is a model we humans build to wrap our heads around the concept of
> >causality.
>
> Well, being takes time, that's what the "ing" does, it implies a pattern
> continuing into the future from the past. If anything is, it is in time.
>
> >Value doesn't necessarily come from the repetition of static patterns
over
> >time. If so, we'd still be swinging from trees (or swimming in the
> >primordial soup).
>
> Nah, there's too many patterns, patterns are constantly being created by
> their interaction with other patterns. As consciousness becomes conscious
> of more and more patterns its consciousness grows and value increases as
the
> patterns are repeated. When two patterns conflict, the more valuable,
more
> expected one repeats and thwarts the weaker pattern so that something
> unexpected happens, the weaker pattern is not realized and something else
is
> realized (not randomly, but according to so many other patterns). If that
> happens often enough, it becomes the new expected pattern, and it stops
> being moral to swing from trees and becomes moral to walk on the ground.
>
> >For better or worse, and I can't fully understand or explain it, static
> >patterns DO evolve in response to Dynamic Quality. This malleability
allows
> >the slow climb from the Big Bang to planetary systems; from the
primordial
> >soup to the guy making soup in his microwave.
>
> How else was it going to evolve?
>
> >>Yes, patterns emerge from the wake of the cutting edge, but they are
> >>generally the same patterns that were there before. 99.99999% of the
> >>time, things stay pretty much as they were from moment to moment. The
> >>table emerged from the wake of the cutting edge just like it was, albeit
a
> >>little older, with a few fewre carbon 14 atoms or whatever. And if you
> >>had taken a hatchet to it, then the pattern of hatchets destroying
tables
> >>is stronger than the pattern of the table staying as it was.
> >
> >By your own description, 99.99999% of the time they are NOT exactly the
> >same from moment to moment.
>
> No, they pretty much are. I'm talking instantaneous moment, from now to
> now. Things are pretty much the same, huh? And the changes that did
happen
> changed according to expected patterns.
>
> >Reality is not some static entity that changes grudgingly, it is a
dynamic
> >flow where static patterns need to hold on for dear life.
>
> Reality is always changing, and bears no grudge, but patterns DO change
> grudgingly. The value of patterns is in their not changing, in their
being
> patterns. If they had no preference for continuing themselves, then the
> universe would become an unordered chaotic mess with no life in it, no
> consciousness. Patterns are a conscious moral desire to repeat, that's
why
> they repeat and things are stable and ordered and predictable.
>
> >Reread Lila, the part about the "Static Latch" theory. Dynamic Quality is
> >ALWAYS at work, through all four levels simultaneously. Existing static
> >patterns evolve in response to the force of DQ, but if they cannot
maintain
> >their evolved state by latching onto a new static pattern, then they
> >degenerate at least as far as they've evolved (if not further, if the
> >previous static latch cannot maintain it any further).
>
> That's fine as a way to describe how patterns change. I would say that
> patterns are regularly being thwarted by other patterns, and if those
other
> patterns are strong and regular enough, then the original pattern stops,
as
> it is no longer the expectation, and a new expectation takes its place.
> Thus things can evolve or devolve, and which word we use is up to us.
>
> >Our concept of time (to get back to the topic) is a fiction, but an
> >extremely advantageous one to date, if you'll pardon the expression.
>
> I think actually that time is one of the most basic primary attributes,
> central to existence and consciousness. Not a fiction at all, unless you
> consider existence and consciousness also to be fictions.
>
> Johnny
>
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