MD MOQ and The Fall of The Evil Empire

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Mon Jun 07 2004 - 21:24:49 BST

  • Next message: Dan Glover: "Re: MD Ronald Reagan"

    Hi Horse,

    Great post, reproduced here in new thread. This is what I meant when
    I said anyone who thinks Reagan was responsible for the breakup of
    the SU probably also believes the US won WWII, singlehandedly. Both
    ideas are the result of a terrible ignorance of history.

    What happened in the USSR could have also happened in Iraq, but
    deliberate actions were taken to prevent it. NC, in what I consider
    to be his own resonance with the MoQ (a resonance of which he's
    probably unaware), constantly stresses this point. Brutal invasion
    must be the absolute last resort, not the first. And even then the
    invader must meet a heavy burden of proof of its necessity. IMO,
    this burden was certainly not met in Iraq, and rarely has been, if
    ever.

    Thanks. Here's Horse... Would love some thoughtful comments...
    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

    On 7 Jun 2004 at 20:19, Horse wrote:
    I think that Reagan, Thatcher and Kohl were little more than bit
    players in the events of the late 80's with regard to the USSR. Along
    with Reagan and the majority of other 'world leaders' at the time
    they were just carrying on the same old same old. The military build
    up by the US and Europe, increasing the number of Nukes to insane
    levels, conflict by proxy etc. was the same old behaviour that had
    been continuing for the previous 30 to 40 years. The USSR was quite
    capable of matching (or bluffing - it makes little difference) this
    behaviour. In other words a static latching of mainly biological and
    social patterns.

    Walesa's role in the Polish trade union Solidarity (which he helped
    to found and was the first independent trade union in the Soviet
    bloc) was crucial in bringing about strikes and civil unrest which
    led directly to the toppling of Jaruzelski's government. Which in
    turn led to the creation of a non-communist Polish government - a not
    inconsiderable feat. Walesa had spent time in jail for his
    activities, was beaten up on several occasions and generally suffered
    for his beliefs and actions - none of which involved or encouraged
    violent action.But it was the Polish people, led by Walesa, that
    brought this about, not the US or the UK or Germay or France etc.
    This was to be repeated in different regions throughout the Soviet
    Union and it is this which directly caused the fall of communism. The
    build up of weapons alone would have led only to war - probably
    nuclear war.

    At the same time as this was going on Gorbachev had instituted
    changes in Soviet society (Glasnost) that not only enabled and
    encouraged criticism of communist institutions but meant that there
    would be no military intervention to sustain dependent states such as
     Poland. He also introduced Perestroika with all the economic changes
    and reforms that this brought about - most of which, sadly, were
    destroyed by the drunken fool Yeltsin. Strangely enough it was Yelsin
    who was backed by the US, the UK, Germany and France and not
    Gorbachev - probably because Yeltsin could be more easily
    'influenced' than Gorbachev. Gorbachev had a reputation for being
    extremely intelligent and independent and probably scared the holy
    bejesus out of the likes of Reagan, Thatcher and Kohl.

    The main point here is that it was the people of the Soviet Union
    that were responsible for the events of the late 1980's. This is the
    real reason for the increase in the number of democracies over the
    last few years. There was no need for an invasion by foreign powers
    to install democracy - it happened because the Soviet people wanted
    it. What a shame we can't learn from the best lessons of the past.

    So bury the tribal elders (Reagan, Thatcher et. al.) with all the
    Social level ceremony they deserve then forget them, 'cause if you're
    looking for a couple of true Brujo's then look no further than Walesa
    and Gorbachev. These two brought about the sort of change within
    their (and our) societies unseen for many years.

    OK - now I'll shut up and go back to sleep :)
    Horse

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