Re: MD Ayn Rand's Objectivism.

From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Mon Jun 14 2004 - 17:51:18 BST

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    Dear Mark M. (Valuemetaphysics@aol.com),

    You did a good job comparing Ayn Rand's Objectivism and the MoQ (10 Jun 2004
    14:09:10 +0100 and later), but your conclusions about Platt were too rash
    and understandably made him refuse to discuss with you any further. You
    should have asked him first to comment on your comparison before drawing
    conclusions.

    Mark 14-6-04: Hi Wim, Thank you for your encouragement. It's always good to
    hear from you, and this has been an unexpected delight.
    The dialogue between Platt and I began with Noam Chomsky. Platt and I were
    both in the same boat as we had not read any of Chomsky's books. I bought one,
    Deterring democracy, and felt it was so good i should thank those who tipped me
    into checking it out, and further recommend it to Platt. Obviously, i have
    been aware of the name Chomsky for years; some of my student friends admire him
    a great deal, and he crops up all the time in cultural related studies for his
    excellent work in linguistics. But here is was reading him for the first
    time.
    Platt refused to read anything by Chomsky, and stated quite openly, and
    apparently with al sincerity that Rush Limbaugh was a better source of Intellectual
    Quality that Noam Chomsky.
    That statement in and of itself sets of the alarm bells, but i think i
    deserve credit for being prepared to read Rush Limbaugh's primary material.
    This is even before we got to Ayn Rand you understand Wim?

    If subject-object thinking can be integrated in the MoQ, why can't Ayn
    Rand's Objectivism? If translated into 'high quality intellectual patterns
    of value' (or lower quality, depending on what you compare it with), we
    would get a more constructive type of discussion than in this way.

    Mark 14-6-04: When we got to Ayn Rand i immediately acknowledged that
    compared to Rush Limbaugh, Ayn Rand was more worthy of investigation.
    I tried to used a philosophical approach and came across Objectivism. If you
    have read any of my posts to Platt you will notice that Objectivism derives
    values from fact - an ought from an is. Not once did Platt engage with my
    suggestion that this was totally incompatible with the MOQ. It takes two to have a
    constructive discussion Wim? And i feel i did try?

    Let me remind you of an earlier discussion of Ayn Rand on this list in March
    last year. I copy Sam's contribution underneath as an example of a more
    constructive approach.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    Mark 14-6-04: Thank you, but you do not have to, because i researched the
    archives and read all this while attempting to keep my dialogue with Platt open.
    I do appreciate your efforts to help me become a more constructive
    contributor.
    You ask if SOM can be integrated into the MOQ then why not Objectivism.
    That's a fair question, although i would try not to use the word integrated
    in this way myself.
    I think we can bring Chomsky and the MOQ in here because many of the
    philosophical ideals which have been adopted to justify political positions are, by
    definition, unobtainable. This is the same for Marxism, Objectivist capitalism,
    and all the rest of it. If any of these actually worked no one would have much
    to complain about, but as even Rand indicates, her ideal does not exist
    either. Its all in the tensions.
    I find that very interesting indeed, and the relationship between ideal
    intellectual postulations and politics is the single most exciting aspect to have
    emerged from my discussion with Platt, for here we have a front line between
    Intellectual patterns and Social patterns.
    Chomsky is interesting in this regard because he weaves a path between left
    and right, to use the vulgar terms. So, Rand is not so much integrated into the
    MOQ as the MOQ indicates the moral value of a relationship between
    Objectivist Intellectual patterns and political social patterns.

    I am very happy to explore this with or without Platt.

    I hope this makes sense Wim?
    All the best,
    Mark

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