MD Catholic/Protestant

From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Thu Jul 01 2004 - 15:28:01 BST

  • Next message: Ian Glendinning: "Re: MD Pirsig the Critic"

    Dear forum,
    Here is an edited copy of "SQ-SQ tension in Human relationships."
    Date: 3/7/04 10:34:20 PM GMT Standard Time
    with some additional comments and interspersed sections by Robert Pirsig from
    ricks's post.
    Dear forum,
    I had to laugh. Visiting a male member of my family and his wife last week
    made me think about SQ-SQ tension in Human relationships...

    I wonder has anyone watched, How to murder your wife starring Jack Lemmon?
    There is a scene in which Lemmon's boss is being kept in a perpetual state of
    uncertainty by his wife at a party. The husband and wife relationship i visited
    last week displayed the same patterns and it was only until then that i had
    noticed. When i did notice this, i wondered why i had not seen it before?

    I think the answer to that is twofold: First of all, i am not a keen observer
    of Human relationships; they do not concern me very much. Secondly, we are
    very often too close to see the wood for the trees? In this respect, a bit of
    distance and a bit of removed contemplation can reveal things one may never
    usually have tumbled?

    Back to hubby and wife; the male in the relationship is kept in a perpetual
    state of not quite knowing where he stands. Not only this, but he has no idea
    other people are able to see this; his dancing about the place is hidden behind
    behaviour he feels projects a sense of him being in control or in some way
    considerate. But no matter how accommodating he tries to be, the intelligence of
    his other half deftly keeps him unbalanced. When you see it, it is hilarious.
    Later on, it may not seem so funny?

    Pirsig:
    For the traditional Catholic layman, morality is external.
    For him the other-directed authoritarian system of his moral education has
    become the pattern of his life, and we see in page after page his professed
    love of, and obedience to, authority. He is a system player. That is how
    he had to learn it. You love the system and the system loves you. Now the
    system is failing and he is without a clue and in terror as to why this
    should happen.

    Mark 1-7-04: My male relative's morality is being provided by his wife, a
    catholic. She avoids confrontation by perpetuating uncertainty as to that which
    she really wants, while aiming at what she wants in resolution of uncertainty.

    I feel the wife's strategy may be open to SQ-SQ interpretation. If we begin
    with the assumption that there exists the potential for all patterns to attain
    exceptional SQ-SQ coherence, then lesser degrees of coherence may be stable
    and open to examination also.
    So how do the people in the above relationship stand in SQ-SQ terms?

    In order for a perpetual feeling of uncertainty to remain stable, i would
    suggest there to be an exceptional balance between certainty and doubt which is
    exploited as that precise point where manipulation of social and biological
    patterns is most easily directed.

    Pirsig:
    Protestants, including his own wife, tend to take more heed of their own
    consciences when coming to moral decisions.

    If one balances a symmetrical 2 Ton, 10 feet long metal pipe precisely on its
    mid point with a razor blade, one would have no trouble directing the mass
    with one's little finger. Thus, large forces may be brought to bare with grace
    and virtuosity.
    In the social analogue of our inorganic mass, may not relationships settle in
    a well balanced coherent state where DQ may be thought of as the pivotal
    driving force between the sum total of patterns?

    Mark 1-7-04: The male relative is more Dynamic and less open to imposed
    social patterns than his wife. In order for his Dynamic self determination to be
    coerced she performs a dance of certainty/uncertainty which he cannot pattern in
    any meaningful way. More often than not, the male relative is lead to value
    pleasing his wife as an indication of his love for her. Thus, her social
    patterns are promoted and he feels he is doing the best thing as determined by his
    own values.

    This lead me to contemplate the roll of Human intelligence? For the most
    part, manipulation required for perpetual uncertainty may not be hard wired and
    instinctive. But over time, reflection upon patterns of instinctive social
    patterns may produce a static repertoire of intellectual symbols of pragmatically
    learned 'best results' which may allow intelligent enquiry into more
    sophisticated shading of social strategies?

    Thus, we may have here the beginnings of a method with which to explore
    healthy relationships which evolve into ever more coherent states - the warm glow
    of two partners sitting on a park bench saying nothing, but understanding
    everything?

    All the best,
    Mark



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