From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Sat Jul 03 2004 - 20:38:48 BST
Hi Mark and all,
A very interesting though contentious subject, Mark.
I want to explore mystical apprehensions in Human relationships. Mystical
does not mean instinctive, yet like self-preservation it can occur without a
self-aware focus. If mystical occurs by chance it is in response to a preference
or tendency. In some instances the level approached is not in my awareness.
Mystical applies to actions as well as knowledge. I can’t imagine hitting a 95
mph fastball with a bat for average. IMO training, ‘the initiation’, applies
to mystical action. A hero is the way I would describe an individual who
attains the mystical.
Joseph Campbell in *The Hero With A Thousand Faces* opens with a
consideration of the Monomyth. What seems to be the same for all heroes? In section 3 ‘
The Hero and the God’ p. 30 he writes:
"The standard path of the mythological adventure of the hero is a
magnification of the formula represented in the rites of passage: ‘separation–initiation–
return:’ which might be named the monomyth.
"‘A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of
supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is
won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to
bestow boons on his fellow man.’" end quote.
joe: the toast to a hero was my contribution at my son’s wedding. To me this
describes the apprehension and manifestation of DQ. How to apply this to Human
relationships?
IMO what is heroic for a man is different from what is heroic for a woman. I
will take a stab at the difference, but I am not a woman so pardon if my
conjecture is silly. IMO men and women have a minuscular (adverb from minuscule)
different moral sense! I propose that men have a minuscular greater
participation in the intellectual order-the unfinished part of it. I propose that women
have a minuscular greater participation in the social order- where everything
belongs. There is enough difference to change their respective physiology, but
not enough difference to change their level. Sex Matters! More or less!
The male outlook is slightly different than the female outlook. Without
self-knowledge assurance in the relationship is disturbed.
Joe Maurer
Mark 3-7-04: Hi Joe, the tensions i explored in Human relationships where
between static social and intellectual patterns. My brother does not hold the
rigid catholic social patterns his wife does, so, he is more free to choose his
morality. She somehow recognises this and has developed strategies, both social
and intellectual, (maybe even biological)? to restrain him, and promote her
static patterns.
I simply used the Pirsig quote provided by rick to try and shed a bit of
light on matters i had already contemplated.
I'm not sure what is contentious about this?
You wish to explore the mystical in Human relationships. I like the sound of
it. I have thought about this before - it is well understood that
relationships of a very Dynamic nature exist - and poets have wrote about it. Perhaps
Author and Guinevere, Troy and Helen are examples, although these appear social to
me and not mystical?
Sartre has his own explanation for why it is that lovers hide themselves
away; they avoid 'the look' of the third. But legend does not avoid the third
because the audience IS the third? Or are we?
The monomyth is interesting. There appears to be a raising of a coherent
state here? It goes like this:
"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day (Static patterns of
value) into a region of supernatural wonder: (Dynamic Quality.) fabulous forces are
there encountered (Static patterns are disrupted into near chaotic states)
and a decisive victory is won: (a raising of overall coherence) the hero comes
back from this mysterious adventure with the power (increased coherence) to
bestow boons on his fellow man." (Like the master Zen archer who can raise his
pupil's coherence simply by handling his bow.)
Perhaps the monomyth is all about becoming a master? There must have been a
time when the ability of a master or excellence was given a supernatural
elevation? Also, does the cave dweller of Plato's Republic venture 'outside' to
apprehend the ultimate nature of form - the form of the Good?
All the best,
Mark
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