From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jul 20 2004 - 14:41:26 BST
Hi Johnny,
On this issue we'll have to agree to disagree. "Rule by terror, violence
and death" in this context presupposes people (in urban slums) with
"ideas" about how to rule. They have chosen to rule by employing the
biological morality of "might makes right," as have the Muslim terrorists.
Platt
> HI Platt,
>
> >Johnny:
> >No way, this sort of thuggery is intellectual, the whole point of it is to
> >effect society, it is the interaction of level three patterns, one society
> >trying to dominate another. Why can't you admit it's intellectual?
>
> >Platt:
> >Because it isn't. It's biological.
>
> >"What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social moral
> >codes are almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the
> >revolutionaries hoped for, but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and
> >gang death-the old biological might-makes-right morality of prehistoric
> >brigandage that primitive societies were set up to overcome." (Lila, 24)
>
> Yes, that has the words "terror" and "biological" in it, but I don't think
> it 1) is strictly right about might-makes-right being biological, or, 2)
> applies to terrorism.
>
> Biological terror is literally the physical feeling of terror, a biological
> response to death or danger. And a "mighty" bio pattern has less to fear,
> and will probably get its way, where the social patterns do not steer it
> toward civility. Mightiness is relative, though, so it is obviously
> requires social interactions for it to mean anything. It's a social
> pattern that is based on the interaction of biological patterns, yes, but
> all social patterns are based on the interaction of different biological
> patterns, like how younger people interact with older, uglier/prettier,
> smarter/slower, etc. Do we say that being respectful to an older person,
> or asking the pretty girl out first, or not shouting at blind people, are
> biological patterns or a social patterns? I think they are social
> patterns, based on biological differences.
>
> What was coming out of the slums, because of destroyed moral codes, were
> social patterns (or the lack of) that caused bio patterns to live in
> terror.
> Usually social patterns protect the life of the bio patterns, but
> intellectual patterns destroyed the social patterns which protected life.
> Setting up primitive societies was done by intellectually putting the
> existing social patern of not killing each other into words and exhorting
> people to make a peaceful society as opposed to making another society
> where people killed each other. A desire for a peaceful civil society is
> intellectual in that it is about social patterns, and not a social pattern
> itself (though it strengthens the social patterns of not killing).
>
> >"Rule by terror," "violence" -- clearly biological level values in the
> >MOQ.
>
> Violence requires more than one biological pattern and therefore must be a
> social pattern (or rather an inverse social pattern). Just because it
> involves biology and directly effects the body doesn't make it a biological
> pattern. The bruise, the cut, the bleeding, yes, those are biological.
> But the violence is social. And violence done (in spite of social patterns
> against it) in order to change society, has its genesis in intellectual
> patterns, which are formed when societies interact. Face it, were it not
> for ideas about how society should be, those terrorists would not be
> killing anyone.
>
> Johnny
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