From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Tue Jul 27 2004 - 20:19:26 BST
Hello everyone
>Mark 26-7-04: Coherence says intellect is patterns of sq evolving towards
>DQ.
>Are you seriously telling me you have a problem with that Dan?
>Re: inspiration. It's not hard work. You just have to zazen. Fish. Wait. Be
>patient.
No I didn't say I have a problem with coherence. I get the impression from
your posts that you feel coherence is a better term to use in the MOQ than
is the term Quality. I disagree with you on that. But perhaps that's not
what you really mean?
Mark 27-7-04: Pirsig uses the term Quality in two ways - One to refer to all
of reality and the other in a common language sense. Now if you are presented
with two violins, one a mass produced 'stamped and glued job' and the other a
strad, which one is better?
One may say, "the strad is higher Quality," and many may agree, but i feel
the MOQ has more to say...
Violin, musician, social meaning and intellectual articulation are missing
from the statement, "The strad is higher Quality than the mass produced violin,"
although this statement is certainly empirically verifiable.
The mass produced job may be played well by a master violinist like Stephan
Grappelli for example, but how much better played the strad, and why?
Coherence may be used here to indicate the flavour of moment in more detail.
Do you feel this may be more suited to a society of MOQ driven intellectuals
Dan? A society such as ours, here in the MOQ.org?
>Mark 26-7-04: This movie is discussed by Pirsig in an audio lecture. The
>link
>between fly fishing, archery and motorcycle maintenance of the sweet spot
>should be pretty well plain. I would suggest you stop thinking about this
>for a
>while and just wait.
Could you point me to where I could find the audio lecture?
Mark 27-7-04: Please follow this link:
http://www.conferencerecording.com/conflists/ahp93.htm
You can order a copy from here, i don't have a transcript i'm afraid.
The film 'a river run's through it' is simply mentioned by Pirsig once on
this recording when he is remembering the view from his teaching room discussed
in ZMM. I assume Pirsig has watched the film because he refers to it in order
to convey the beauty of this area to the conference members.
>The MOQ would say Quality inheres in all the topics you list. My point was
>that rather than pointing a student to taking action in learning a topic a
>zen master points the student to taking inaction. The student already knows
>how to perfectly draw the bow and shoot the arrow. All the student must to
>is remember that they know. The same can be said about playing the perfect
>chess game. The memory is uncovered through inaction, not action. That's
>how
>a person can beat anyone in the world, if one has the predilection.
>
>Mark 26-7-04: This sounds a bit Platonic to me. Memory is remembering. I am
>confused.
>It seems to me that if you 'get on' to coherence you can begin to see it
>all
>over the place, and yet there are many people who don't get to see it even
>once?
Perhaps this quote of Robert Pirsig's in LILA'S CHILD will reduce the
confusion: "In German there are two words for “know,” kennen and wissen. The
Zen approach reduces Wissenschaft (scholarly knowledge) and thereby improves
Kenntnis (recognition without intellectual interposition)."
RMP expounds on how a person buys a car and then begins seeing the same cars
everywhere that they never noticed before. The same is happening in the case
of coherence perhaps. And it has something to do with what I said about
knowing but having to remember the knowing.
Mark 27-7-04: The same topic is discussed on the AHP93 tape.
Coherence is situational - it's a moment in which DQ directs patterns into
coherence.
I like this diagram:
Event stream (DQ) SODV --------> Coherence <-------- Evolution (DQ) Lila.
Coherence is sq-sq tension - the optimum patterned state; the best of all
states.
Event stream (DQ) SODV --------> sq-sq <-------- Evolution (DQ) Lila.
As sq becomes ever more sophisticated and varied coherence always remains
harmonious.
Coherence is the sweet spot.
Event stream (DQ) SODV --------> sweet spot <-------- Evolution (DQ) Lila.
Coherence is freedom from patterning within patterning.
Event stream (DQ) SODV --------> freedom <-------- Evolution (DQ) Lila.
This is why i feel coherence is stillness in action because action is a sq
pattern also.
A master, 'makes it look easy' because the master does not try. The master is
a highly coherent pattern.
Make any sense Dan?
Thank you for your comments,
Dan
Mark 27-7-04: Always a total pleasure Dan.
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