From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 01 2004 - 00:45:55 BST
Hi David,
You see, I don't think that mere contemplation and study, whether written in
language or illustrated or mimed, or just daydreamed about, makes a new
level above social patterns. I know that everyone here will say that I'm
wrong about this, and I don't deny that thinking and pursuing and developing
a field of thought is an intellectual activity, but I think that's not the
same thing as being a fourth level pattern.
I arrive at this awkward position because I am trying to make the
relationship of each level to the ones above and below the same kind of
relationship.
I mean, can't people contemplate things in a biological sense? Even a dog
can study the field of cat chasing, and I'm sure they spend quite a bit of
their brain power doing just that. "Oh boy! If I could just get outside, I
could chase a cat, and this time I won't let it get up the tree." They
learn where the door is, and the best techniques to use to break free and
chase cats, and they learn and refine the technique. I kind of agree with
Paul that symbolic language makes a distinction and that if dogs started
writing books about cat chasing, it would make it an intellectual pattern,
but I don't think it is merely the writing of the book that does it, so much
as the fact the book is written in order for it to be read and presumably
learned from, and that this would have an effect on dog society. It would
be ABOUT society, saying, this is how I, Rex, believe dogs should chase
cats, and that is what is fourth level about it. Not the complexity of the
subject matter, but rather if the subject matter is about social patterns.
And I don't see how Cosmological Mathematics is about social patterns more
than it is just a very elaborate social pattern itself. Is there much
difference between learning how to set the table to mom's satisfaction and
learning how to do CM to the professor's satisfaction?
Johnny
>From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Subject: Re: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
>Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 10:25:03 +0100
>
>Hi all
>
>Is there a single person who thinks Johnny
>has got this right?
>
>Yes he has/No he has not will do.
>
>I ask for opinion here because it just
>comes down to how you read the MOQ.
>I think you are making up your own stuff
>here and it makes no sense to me.
>Intellectual enquiry can have any level for its
>subject I would say.
>
>regards
>David M
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 10:06 PM
>Subject: Re: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
>
>
> > David M asked:
> > >Simply: is cosmological mathematics intellectual?
> > >What has that to do with the social level?
> >
> > Cosmological mathematics is contemplating things like the nature of the
> > universe and infinity and zero? I don't see it as intellectual by my
> > understanding of the fourth level. It's what people are expected to do
> > when they get together and take mushrooms or something. They gave it a
> > name, which is what I expect a group of people to do when they get
>together
> > and talk about something enough, and they developed it and refined it
>into
> > language they understand, which is also what I expect people to do when
>they
> > get together. So I think cosmological mathematics is social to the
>extent
> > that it is a field, and inorganic if you are talking about the actual
>goings
> > on of the cosmos.
> >
> > If it were a pattern that described the interaction of social patterns,
>like
> > say an ideology or political ideas, I would say it was fourth level.
>For
> > example, the social pattern of caring for the sick interacts with the
>social
> > pattern of government to form an intellectual pattern of national health
> > care, as a concept with a life of its own.
> >
> > Just because the subject of cosmological mathematics seems complex and
> > advanced, doesn't make it any different level-wise from observing that
> > bananas grow on certain trees or that rain is wet. Would you call those
> > fields of study intellectual?
> >
> > Johnny
> >
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