RE: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise

From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Mon Aug 02 2004 - 12:38:19 BST

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    Hi David

    > David said:
    > The fact that individually generated intellectual patterns can later
    be
    > shared with other fully emerged individuals...
    >
    > Paul:
    > Fully emerged individuals? To me, this is an ideal that you and Platt
    > seem to start with that you are then fudging into the MOQ. It sounds
    > more like Maslow or Rand than Pirsig.

    David said:
    Rubbish, this is you claiming your thinking is more advanced than mine
    -you may be wrong you know!

    These are not the people I read, try Heidegger, Arthur Gibson, Roy
    Bhaskar,
    Charles Taylor, AM Young, Roger Smith, RM Young, Whitehead, Bergson,
    Baitaille, Schelling, Prigogine bacause I did anti-essentialism a long
    time before I came across Pirsig in fact.

    Paul:
    I'm sorry if my statement offended you. I was making an observation that
    the 4th level in the MOQ has never been characterised by Pirsig as the
    level of "fully emerged individuals," and that such an idea (i.e. the
    defining significance of "the individual") must therefore come from
    somewhere else. From previous reading, the phrase reminded me of Maslow
    and Rand (but there are many others who say something similar), that's
    all.

    I've never claimed to be a more advanced thinker than anyone, David, and
    yes, of course I may be wrong, that applies to us all....except my wife
    :-)

    David said:
    'Individual' is a perfectly good name for a collection of SQ patterns
    that enable the level of intellectual SQ patterns to emerge, you used
    the correct Pirsig quote yourself. I think you think I am saying
    something I am not.

    Paul:
    Okay, the point I am making, and I am growing as weary from making it as
    you will be of hearing it, is that patterns of value create and enable
    individuals; individuals do not create or enable patterns of value. If
    that is what you mean, then we agree.

    Cheers

    Paul

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