From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sat Nov 02 2002 - 19:24:02 GMT
Everybody, Erin, Patrick, and a P.S. for Sam:
Patrick said:
To me this passage points to one of the consequenses of Pirsig's MoQ. We
are not in the ultimate sense an subject that has only secondary
relations with some disconnected, 'objective' world. Our 'dialogue' with
the world and other people make us what we are. We meet ourselves in
others, even or precisely when these others are so 'exotic'.
Erin said:
I remember somebody talking about how Lila was a deconstruction
of the metanarrative of America. It seems to me like Pirsig is playing with
that whole Cowboy /Indian dichotomy.
I actually like when campbell talks about the two modern
archetypes being the scientist and artist.
I think that Phaedrus character fits the scientist really well
and the Zuni Indian character fits the artist really well.
Pirsig of course is a scientific artist.
Not really sure what you wanted here..that is how in depth.
Interesting passage you chose. You going to make us wait
until the end to hear your $.02 on it?
DMB says:
Thanks for tossing some ideas into the ring. Yesterday there were no
respones. Whew! One can still hope. I picked the passage because there are
so many places to go with it; mirrors, the peyote meeting, the Indian's
story, the universal importance, and the everyman thing. It seemed like it
might be related to the Jesus threads too. You know, if Jesus is concieved
as kind of big-time contrarian. But in the end, I tried to find the heart of
the passage, the core meaning, which touches on all these things and more.
Look at it again and then I'll lay it on you.
Chapter 9, page 111.
"When Phaedrus first read this passage he felt a kind of eerie feeling - a
feeling he might have had if he had passed in front of a strange mirror and
suddenly seen a reflection of someone he'd never expected to see. It was the
same feeling he got at the peyote meeting. This Zuni Indian was not exactly
someone else.
This was not just an isolated tribal incident going on here. This was
something of universal importance happening. This was EVERYMAN. There is not
a person alive who is not in some way or other in the kind of situation this
"witch" was in. It was just that his circumstances were so exotic and so
extreme one could now see it, by itself, out in the open."
DMB continues:
I was struck by the combination of "This... was not exactly someone else."
and "This was everyman." You guys hit on this too. Pirsig identifies with
the Zuni witch himself and also says that everyone is in this same
situation. Its personal and universal at the same time. It reminds me of a
passage toward the end of the book where the author says that "Lila's battle
is everybody's battle, you know?" and another that says evolution happens in
individuals as well as in society. If you, Pirsig, the Brujo, Lila and
everybody else are all involved in the same universal situation, what could
it be? Erin hit on it. Its the Hero's journey.
Lila is behind the curve. In the right hands she might arrive at that
"better than cured" state, but in Rigel's hands she'll probably only adjust
herself to mainstream social norms. Unlike the Brujo, she's not likely to
ever lead changes in her society. That's the task of regenerative
contrarians, artists, revolutionaries, saints, sages and the like. We're all
in the same situation, but some do better than others. Its all about
reconciling the individual and the group. Throughout 500,000 years of human
history each person has experienced a certain tension between him or herself
and rest of the clan, a tension between the animal and social selves. These
universal and oft repeated experiences have created a whole contellation of
energies and archetypes in the psyche. This is where the hero's journey
comes from. This journey is about mastering and then transcending
convention, venturing outside the bounds of society and then returning with
a gift for mankind. It takes the individual way beyond mere adjustment or
conformity. For the successful hero, its a creative act of personal
transcendence that also refreshes the world, heals the land or whatever. How
each of us handles this universal situation determines the direction and
speed of social evolution.
P.S. Sam, as you can see, I think the tension between the individual and the
collective exists within the social level and defines much of it. This
tension is expressed universally in the mythos, in all the world's myths. As
Erin points out, our modern heros are more likely to be artists and
intellectuals. And this makes sense because heros have always exemplified
the best of any given era. But the vast majority of heros, the classical
heros are warriors, magicians, healers, and all kinds of non-intellectual
types. They all represent the individual's effect on the larger society, but
this archetype existed and operated for ages before the intellect was even
born. See what I mean?
Thanks,
DMB
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